need fast help..my home inspection. electrical and water heater.

[vash]

i'm considering buying a home.

it has a couple of issues that stick in my mind.

1. it has a brand new tankless Rinnai water heater. great brand, my old house had one. they mounted it in the garage..up high in the rafters. if i had to guess, it was so they could keep it outof the way and save money on length of exhaust tube..i think it needs that double walled stainless stuff...NOT SURE they used it. but the problem is the bathrooms are way on the other side of the house..i tried to run the hot water and after a few minutes..nothing. the selling agent looked annoyed so i stopped the experiment.

2. electrical panel. WTF? it has a small sub box in the garage. about 8-10 breakers..i knew there had to be more so i went looking. here is what if found. is this standard? can i put a cover over the conductors?

i dont mind paying a few bucks to fix things..like i think a second Rinnai on the other side of the house would fix things..($5000)

what about the electrical? pics next. i'm going to call the city to see if there were permits.

oh,..i have until 2:00 pm today. thanks.

[vash]

I know zero about home electrics.


Sent via Jedi mind trick.

[stomachmonkey]

No answer to your questions but F the selling agent.

It's your money and commitment, let them get annoyed.

[vash]

Tat top breaker looks tripped.


Sent via Jedi mind trick.

[Steve Carlton]

Get fire insurance a full 7 days before you close.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by vash

2. electrical panel. WTF? it has a small sub box in the garage. about 8-10 breakers..i knew there had to be more so i went looking. here is what if found. is this standard? can i put a cover over the conductors?

There is a cover over the conductors. Wiring positioning looks like the installer was an electrician. You can lock the box.

What's the concern aside from the outside placement?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Get fire insurance a full 7 days before you close.

And the house was built in 1962............

This may be good advice in general but if it's that much of a risk, you gonna feel comfortable sleeping there?

[vash]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

There is a cover over the conductors. Wiring positioning looks like the installer was an electrician. You can lock the box.



What's the concern aside from the outside placement?

Is there supposed to be an inner panel cover?

[flyenby]

Tankless will sometime take a while to get to furthest fixtures, some are so efficient that they use cpvc for exhaust.

[Charles Freeborn]

We have a Rianni tankless. There are restrictions on locations such as 9' from other appliances (furnace, etc) so that may be the reason for the location. We have a humidifier that requires instant hot water, so I simply added a little 2 gallon electric up stream from the Rianni. By the time the 2 gals runs out the tankless has spooled up. Cost about $200. Much less than another tankless.

Breaker panel looks okay - just lock the cover and have a licensed electrician look it over. Make sure there are no "double lugged" breakers (breaker with more than one circuit attached). Sub panels are common and not necessarily bad if done correctly. I've got one for my shop.

[Evans, Marv]

I have two, 6gpm Rinnai tankless water heaters placed at each end of the house. For the one in the back that supplies the bathrooms, I have a circulation pump installed. You push a button, the pump starts circulating the water through the pipes, and you have hot water in a matter of less than 30 seconds. I can't imagine you having to spend $5K to get another installed at the other side of the house. I think I paid something like $1,200 each for mine 7 or 8 years ago. I can't imagine the price increasing that much to make it & installation cost $5K - even for installation in an existing structure. Don't even think about an electric tankless water heater. I found out they draw 160 amps at full tilt - at least the size I have. Another thing is if you get an electrician out is to make sure the meter panel matches the amp rating for the house if there is a subpanel.

[bpu699]

Legally, if you are doing a home inspection yourself, and are NOT a liscensed inspector, anything you find is meaningless. It doesn't effect the contract and the seller doesn't have to fix it. You are just doing this for your own education...

Been there, done that. Every contract says the inspection HAS TO BE by a liscensed inspector... If the selling agent has any experince, they know this.

Just thought I would throw that in, in case you ask the seller to fix anything. Legally, he doesn't have too... Of course you can threaten to canel the deal, and lose your security deposit... Or, hope the agent isn't well educated.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by vash

Is there supposed to be an inner panel cover?

At first I was confused by your post and pictures, but now I think I understand. You found the panel with the meter, outside the house, and it has a weather cover as shown in the top pic. When you opened the cover, you saw the breakers and wiring as shown in the second photo. What was missing was the interior cover plate that shields the wiring, exposes only the breaker switches, and has provision for labeling each breaker. Now, I don't know if that's a code issue, but it certainly makes things a bit safer and identification easier.

As you know, tankless water heaters do not mean instant hot water--that is a function of length of the lines. In your case, the distance from tap to heater is long enough to cause an issue for you. As far as an inspection goes, does the heater work, is it up to code, and does it supply hot water to all taps? If yes to all, then it passes. If you want nearly instant hot water, you'll have to do that yourself. I wouldn't expect the seller to foot the bill though you may negotiate if you think it's worthwhile.

BTW, the agent is a douche if he was upset by your experiment. It is a legitimate test--one performed by a licensed inspector--and does play a role in buyer/seller negotiations. If nothing else, it lets you know that a future investment may be necessary.

[MBAtarga]

Looks to me - for that electric box - there never was an inside cover plate as part of the design.

[Scott Douglas]

Your picture of the electrical panel looks exactly like our old one did. We lived with it for many years without a problem. I believe there should be a panel covering the wires, but someone found it too hard to deal with and got rid of it.

[pdxfj]

That electrical panel looks a lot like the famous Federal Pacific "stab lock". They are known for burning up. Given when the house was built, I'm guessing it is.

If you're serious about buying the house, have a professional inspection done. Those panels while functional, usually won't trip a breaker when you overload or short a circuit.

[Evans, Marv]

Just thought of another thing about tankless water heaters. Since they have heat exchangers if you live in an area where you get scale buildup from your water, you should descale them occasionally. The faster the scale buildup, the more frequently you have to descale them. The water heaters have valves for this that isolate the heat exchanger from your plumbing and you can hook up a small sump pump in a 5 gal. bucket with hoses to circulate a vinegar solution through it. I did it once after three years without any apparent scale, so I haven't done it since. I'll probably do it again in another year or so.

[intakexhaust]

You're in a pressure sale to invest in a home without a professional inspection? You OK?

Too much rehab TV shows for you. LOL

edit: GET a proper inspection OUTSIDE of the realtor's arena.

[red-beard]

I would plan on around $5K in redoing the electrical to modern breakers and a modern breaker box. Also, if possible, I would put a 200A service disconnect outside and move the panel inside. What is directly inside the wall, on the other side?

My parents have a 200A - 42 space service, on the exterior of their garage. The price to move the box inside is $3K, including all new breaker, 200A panel, etc. in Houston.

[cashflyer]

Is your additional panel in the garage properly grounded, or just tagged back to the main panel?