Question: Refund of Deposit on Apartment

[Tidybuoy]

I'm asking this question on behalf of a co-worker. Unfortunately, this employee is kind of a flake and did not do a very good job documenting and now is asking for my help.

She had an $800 deposit on an apartment
Moved out June 3, 2016
Received letter from landlord June 22, 2016 (21 days)
Letter stated they are keeping her deposit + billing her an additional $700
Letter included copies of receipts (although I have not seen this letter yet).

She had the carpets professionally cleaned prior to moving. Landlord is charging for cleaning and then cost of replacing carpet as well as other things.

My only real question: Can the landlord charge above and beyond the original security deposit without getting a court judgement?

I know that this girl cleaned the apartment for days and left it pretty clean but she failed to take any pictures....Ahhhh!

If anyone has any advice - I'll take it. This is California BTW.

[Joe Bob]

Small claims. Judges invariably side with the tenant.

[bleucamaro]

I take it the dates are meant to be June 2016... That aside, it really depends on the condition of the carpets and other charges. If the land lord can document the expenses incurred and she can't easily refute them (her only real argument for carpets would be normal wear and tear). The landlord can bill her for damages above and beyond the security deposit, but might have a hard time collecting without getting a judgement.

This might be a good lesson to her to document the condition of a place at move-in and move-out.

[Eric Coffey]

She needs to review her copy of the lease carefully, as well as the current CA LTA.

If she paid any non-refundable "fees" up front (in addition to the security deposit) for cleaning, than that needs to be factored in. Also, a landlord cannot "charge" for normal wear and tear. If she left the place as clean, or cleaner than it was upon move-in, then the landlord has no leg to stand on. In many jurisdictions, landlords can be liable for treble damages if they try to pull that crap.

The landlord also cannot deduct funds from the security deposit to make improvements over what was originally there upon move-in. In other words, if the carpet was not brand new when she moved in, the landlord typically can't charge her for installing brand new carpet when she moves out.

There are exceptions though...like if she totally trashed the place, and/or if anything goes beyond the scope of "normal" wear & tear. Or, if she violated any of the lease terms (smoke or pet damage when the lease specified no smoking/pets, etc.).

That said, you many not be getting the full story. For a landlord to keep the entire security deposit, and charge and additional $700, the damage may in fact go beyond normal wear & tear.

[bpu699]

Yes, the landlord can charge for any damages...

The courts may decide that she owes it or not... (I have never lost a court case in 17 Years, have cumulative judgements exceeding $150,000+. Good luck collecting)

Before you get worked up, go to the owner and kindly ask for proof of damages, to see what they believe is damaged and to see if they are right...

If you do owe the money, offer some kind of compromise... Landlords hate going to court, waste of time.




Landlord, 17 years +

Bo

[motion]

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy

My only real question: Can the landlord charge above and beyond the original security deposit without getting a court judgement?

Of course they do. I've sent many, many move out accounting letters to tenants, with total due, minus the security deposit, but have yet to see one red cent from any of them. In the meantime, I've incurred losses of many tens of thousands of dollars from damage to my homes. Yes, I can try to chase them down in court, but as others have said, good luck collecting. The system is weighed heavily towards those with no money. I realized this a long, long time ago and just suck it up and move on nowadays.

[vash]

no final walk-thru with management?

and i thought paint and carpet were "wear items"? shows you what i know.

[Evans, Marv]

As others have said, the landlord can charge for damages amounting to more than the deposit if the tenant did excess damage. However the landlord has to provide some sort of documentation. A tenant is always foolish not to take pictures upon move in and move out. When I was a landlord, I had a move in/move out form I used along with pictures. Another thing is in a court situation, the landlord cannot claim a carpet replacement period at his/her discretion. I had tenants trash a place once. The guy spilled oil on a brand new carpet. I took them to small claims court and based my charge for the carpet portion on a five year depreciation. The court said they had to use a seven year period. She can take the landlord to small claims court and hope she has enough to help her case. Live & learn.

[Danimal16]

Was she there more than two years?

[dan79brooklyn]

This is why I didn't pay my last months rent when I left our rental apt. In Brooklyn. I was afraid of the landlord pulling some **** like that. Since our security deposit was one month rent it seemed like the safest move especially since we were moving to Japan. I did verbally tell them we were moving out though.

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by dan79brooklyn

This is why I didn't pay my last months rent when I left our rental apt. In Brooklyn. I was afraid of the landlord pulling some **** like that. Since our security deposit was one month rent it seemed like the safest move especially since we were moving to Japan. I did verbally tell them we were moving out though.

Wouldn't recommend that, silly move. In most states using your security for last month rent is illegal, and entitles the landlord to charge double for last months rent... At least in Wisconsin.

Check your credit, make sure the landlord didn't go to court and get a default judgement against you.

Bo

[dan79brooklyn]

Originally Posted by bpu699

Wouldn't recommend that, silly move. In most states using your security for last month rent is illegal, and entitles the landlord to charge double for last months rent... At least in Wisconsin.

Check your credit, make sure the landlord didn't go to court and get a default judgement against you.

Bo

Do you still think it's silly when your rent/security deposit is $2000 ?
It was better for us not to risk losing that much money, especially since we were moving to Japan. This was six years ago, my credit is fine.

[motion]

Originally Posted by dan79brooklyn

Do you still think it's silly when your rent/security deposit is $2000 ?
It was better for us not to risk losing that much money, especially since we were moving to Japan. This was six years ago, my credit is fine.

I don't think it really matters how much it is. Its still illegal and just wrong.

[dan79brooklyn]

Originally Posted by motion

I don't think it really matters how much it is. Its still illegal and just wrong.

YMMV

Many landlords skirt the laws and tenants are at their mercy. I think a lot of tenants do this just to avoid the situation that the original poster described.

[SCadaddle]

I would suggest you look into the industry standards for the typical lifespan of carpet, countertops etc. and go from there.

One of my past apartment living experiences was a 600 s.f. upstairs unit in a building of 8 units. There were 12 identical buildings on the site, built in 1990. I moved into the unit in 1996 with a $250 deposit. So the apartment was already 6 years old. I moved out in late 2008. So 12 1/2 years of being a good tenant that paid the rent on time every month.

Not once in 12 1/2 years did they offer to clean or replace the carpet, or paint. The countertops that they claimed were stained were stained a month after I moved in as the paint covering the previous stains wore off. The decision to move out was after the landlord, a cheap greedy bastard, decided to replace all of the fully functioning analog HVAC thermostats with crappy $15 Home Depot units.....without notice. This gave him and the single handyman employee free reign of the units with many women reporting their undergarments had been "handled". I had too much "stuff"" in my place and got put on notice to "de-clutter". That's when I gave them the notice that I was leaving and began the move out. Looking back now from my 1700 s.f. house, it's amazing that my electric bill is now about 1/2 of what it was in that 600 s.f. upstairs apartment. I bet the cheap bastard had no insulation in the place.

Once everything was moved out, the manager and I met for a walk through. I asked her if she was expecting a photo out of Southern Living Magazine. I took a lot of pictures and requested my deposit back because I was going to donate it to the wife of a friend who had just passed away from brain cancer. Request denied, and the landlord wanted another $750 for the countertops, carpet and paint. I researched the life expectancy of the things in question, added that in my letter back to him and said have a nice day and don't look to collect the $750......which is about 1% of what I paid him in rent over the years.

[aigel]

Land lord will need documentation, but that's only when it goes to court. Before then he can just say 'screw you' as he has your money. I would not worry too much about the extra charges, likely only piling it on to make the tenant go away with "phew - could have been worse".

I have been burnt exactly once on the security deposit. Some landlords will always deny returning it and have you fight for it. Not good if you have zero documentation. Live and learn. Guy came up saying my dog had peed on the carpet - which was BS. It was an unused room I stored items in. My dog never went into it. After that always had a move in / move out check list and pictures. That helps prevent the BS. Not having pictures is idiotic these days with a decent digital camera on every cell phone.

So, not sure how much help I am here. I would take it to court and the landlord would have to document the damage.

Really glad to be back in my own house ...

G

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by dan79brooklyn

This is why I didn't pay my last months rent when I left our rental apt. In Brooklyn. I was afraid of the landlord pulling some **** like that. Since our security deposit was one month rent it seemed like the safest move especially since we were moving to Japan. I did verbally tell them we were moving out though.

Originally Posted by dan79brooklyn

YMMV

Many landlords skirt the laws and tenants are at their mercy. I think a lot of tenants do this just to avoid the situation that the original poster described.

As a landlord, I follow the law down to the smallest detail. Keeps everybody away from disputes/court. I'm also very generous when returning deposits. If one moving out makes a good faith effort to leave things clean, I give the entire deposit back even if we have to do it over. No sense squabbling over a couple bucks when my time is better spent getting the place in tip-top shape for the next renter.

If you were renting from me and didn't pay the last month's rent, you would get an eviction notice to pay or vacate. I wouldn't waste any time trying to collect. The reason is so when the next property manager calls for a reference, we just state the facts: You were given an eviction notice for failure to pay rent.

[jcommin]

I had a work colleague that had a similar experience. But she was very smart, she took pictures of the walls, kitchen, floors etc before she moved in. When her leas expired, she had a walk thru with the building management. It is must easier to negotiation and debate when you have data. And like any other building inspector, they always mange to find something.

[vash]

Originally Posted by jcommin

I had a work colleague that had a similar experience. But she was very smart, she took pictures of the walls, kitchen, floors etc before she moved in. When her leas expired, she had a walk thru with the building management. It is must easier to negotiation and debate when you have data. And like any other building inspector, they always mange to find something.

this is what i'm going to do.

i didnt even poke a hole in the wall to hang anything. i scrub it clean and take pics..then walk thru.

3 weeks!!

[Dantilla]

I like Washington State's landlord/tenant law.

In order for the landlord to withhold any portion of a deposit, there must be both a move-in report and move-out report signed by both landlord and tenant.

If the deposit and/or any accounting of monies withheld is not returned to the tenant within 14 days of vacancy, the landlord cannot withhold anything, and the tenant may be awarded twice the deposit as damages.

If landlords simply treat people nicely and follow the rules, these stupid problems disappear.