Invasive species... What about invasive societies?
 

I don't know if I will come across as a racist or elitist for this post - if I do, that is certainly not my intent.

We take all sorts of measures to prevent the spread of invasive species (the Carp thread got me thinking about Asian carp invading our water ways).

Why don't we take similar measures to preserve our cultures?

I recognize that some First Nations groups consider the English, French, and Spaniards who came to North America 300 years ago to be an invasive society but let's face it, those tribes likely killed off or displaced other tribes who predated them.

Discuss - why is it OK to prevent the spread of Zebra muscles (my boat was checked at a Mandatory watercraft inspection last week), but we allow (and encourage) societies to flourish that chisel at the backbone of North American culture? I am all for inclusion, but I also believe in respect, tolerance, and compassion for our neighbors. Many of the invasive societies have a 'me first' attitude which is the part that angers me.

PARF in...3....., 2...., 1......

When I was hiking through New Zealand years ago, at every new place I went, I thought, "I hope the gaudy, advertising-EVERYWHERE, conspicuous consumption (for every demographic level) American culture/virus doesn't infect this place."

Protecting your home and way of life shouldn't be a PARF issue but somehow it gets so easily twisted.

Is it because as soon as you single out a group of people as a threat people start screaming intolerance or racism?
Being critical is one thing but being overly critical is just not on. Everyone deserves a chance. If the stuff up? Send them packing.

And we should be discussing issues like this.

Some societies, such as the chinese, did recognize their own self invasive nature and attempted at regulating with the one child policy.

Other groups, such as caucasians from Europe and north America, are in need of the opposite policy if they want their group to survive, since 1.3 child per familly is below the renewal rate.

Then you have the muslims, who are clearly an invasive species with 5-8 children per familly, and conscioulsy use it as a weapon to take control over the societies they invade.

Overall I see the trend that the poor have more children, while the rich tend to he self limiting, and this has an impact on how our societies evolve.

There you have the big generalizations :).

I think you are ignoring history. All societies evolve or die and are supplanted by new ones. Don't you suppose Britains were saying the same things about the Angles and the Saxons when they were moving onto the island ?
We tend to get caught up in the idea the way things are now are the way they always will be. That's likely what the Spanish were thinking when they owned Florida, Texas and California.

Best
Les

great observation.

kinda makes our future look bleak!

The Nordic states have done a fairly decent job in recognizing that their nation's cultural identities are very susceptible to delusion from outside influence. They have very restrictive immigration controls to help them protect the idea of what their countries look like. (for better/worse economically)
They also have policies to insure immigrants adopt the language and find work. It is not just who you let in, it is also how inclusionary they are in the host society.

Multiculturalism, is what is practiced in Europe--and it is a bad idea. When you move to a state, you need assimilate the cultural practices and societal norms of the host nation. You can't really force people to do these things, they need to be incentivized. The truth is we need immigrants--a lot of them, and all kinds, from all different social strata and educational backgrounds. What we need to improve is the process by which they become American and adopt that identity, not just its privileges.

European culture is the most invasive in history. We subjugated entire continents and forced our culture on them. In post-colonial times we lost some of our "manifest destiny" arrogance and began to recognize the value in local cultures and have begun to preserve what's left of them.

It's not the same with invasive non-human species. Invasive species like zebra muscles and Japanese honeysuckle don't have the intellectual capacity to recognize the damage they are doing, so we do need to eradicate them.

Define the American Identity.

Is it kids playing stickball in the streets or is it Friday Night Football under the lights?

Is it lobster and crab or breakfast tacos?

Do you pronounce Mary, Marry, and Merry the same way or do you pronounce each distinctively different.

Are we Catholic, Christian, Mormon, Jewish?

Even multi generational Americans of European lineage have a different "American Identity".

The American Identity is the sum of it's many varied parts.

Good one. I think of the differences a subtle, but boy my Georgian neighbor and his wife "Mairy" ARE different.

there are now taxation policies in Vancouver, to lessen the influx.
supposedly a 50-75% decrease in sales of homes to foreigners.
for better or worse.

If, in the big picture, it is ok for the First Nations to have killed off earlier tribes, and it is considered ok that europeans basically wiped out the american indians, then it follows that it must also be ok for the next group to wipe out the current group.

I think Darwin called it survival of the fittest.

If we are not fit enough to hold on, then do we deserve to be here?

Not so. Sweden is done. Invaded by non-adaptive muslims.



Stomach I have to disagree with your suggestion that we don't have a true identity. it is the backbone of our multiculturalism and runs throughout. we aren't just various cultures existing together (which cannot and does not happen happily anywhere on the planet thanks to islam) with zero adaptation to American ideals.

and when asked I reply ..I'm an American' and I state this proudly..

ST, you & I come from the same place..
born there,speak it, have passport, blah blah..
yet ..we will never be considered 'real' by locals..

Rika

i schwetz schwäbisch.

Makes a huge difference when you bust that out.

Everyone from Berlin to Innsbruck knows you're a homie.;)

It is natural for any group of like minded individuals to initiate their way of thinking. Take for instance those proposing sharia law. Generally speaking majority rules. There will always be incursions and pressure from other groups. This is normal in peace time. However when the chips are down and a big war is impending such as WW2 then the various groups combine to fight the oppressors. Look at the number of First Nations people who joined the armed forces during WW2.

On a micro level if my neighbors' tree roots grow in to our yard then you get the idea....

Islam is diametrically opposed to the western liberal values of self determination. Make no mistake about that. Further Europe went and is still going (Balkans) through a war with Islam. MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT IS A WAR OF CIVILIZATIONS. Western liberalism or the theocratic Islam. With Islam you throw yourself right back to the 7th century, and that goes for your advancement of technology as well. All you would to have is one Mullah proclaim that technology is apostasy and that is it for technology. Allah Akbar.

lol ST.
stimmt schon...
selber aus der Pfalz / Plattdeutsch..

Rika

Yes it was Western Civilization that put a man on the moon. Yes it is Western Civilization that brought you democracy. Islam is diametrically opposed to those western values especially of separation of church and state. You would not be able to speak your apostasy about Islam as you just have about Western culture. You would not even have a PC to spew your anti Western blasphemy of self loathing as this Board would not even exist.

I'm just your average "white" guy here in the U.S. of A.
I started thinking about all that "white privilege" and "white guilt" I was carrying around on a daily basis, and came to the conclusion that I'm really not "white" but rather "European American". Almost instantly the "privilege" and "guilt" just vanished. I almost feel like I'm owed a bit of entitlement. Those like me, try it for a day. :rolleyes:

Skynet won't let that happen.

_

You wana bet?

I think in the country south of your border, our constitution gives them the right of a "me first" attitude. Doesn't mean the rest have to buy into it but they do have the right to think it.
It's happened to every "new" immigrant group since the beginning.

As he had a knack of doing, Winston Churchill laid it out pretty well ...

"Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong - these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history."

_

The real reason the invaders are assisted by our government to gain access to the country is that the fiat currency system requires ever expanding new debt creation in order to sustain itself and avoid implosion and deflation. Deflation would result in government default of social promises made to generations of tax paying, law observing, and socially compliant citizens who would withhold their support if those implied promises are broken. So new debt serfs are allowed into the country to begin their new life of suffrage. New participants are simply required in any Ponzi scheme. We just happen to be living it, as debts need to double every ten years (rough) to sustain the air in the balloon. The current population does not reproduce at a rate that will sustain the currency. Simple and sad. We need more debtors.

What exactly is the point of maintaining a static culture in a dynamic reality dude? Should we all dress like pilgrims?

A nation state without a common culture and nationalistic identity will never sustain itself. Study history and name one that prospered. They all fail. Every one.

That is a highly interesting perpective that connects all the dots together. We do live in a Ponzi scheme, that explains why the few that get on the top become so immensly rich, and why they support those invasions. Also makes me understand better the true meaning of the pyramid that is printed on every dollar bill...

Spread the word. Knowledge of the cause is hope for a solution.

My main concern is that the new invaders will not be taxpayers and will only contribute to the creation of more debt, without the ability to repay even a small portion of it. That would push the Ponzi scheme over the edge and make the economy implode, wouldn't it?

The asian carp crisis pisses me off. This is a detriment in cost and the possibility of destroying sport fishing in the Great Lakes. ALL BECAUSE SOME IDIOT expert from the DNR. Worse, now they want to introduce and farm alligator gar to go after the asian carp. They underestimated the volume of those carp. Its a bad scenario.

Also, in Illinois, the DNR are pyromaniacs. They light up the 'natural' prairies and forest to control weeds and promote new growth. Done in the Spring when thousands of critters and rare species of birds are nesting. Idiots. BTW: Whats that about promoting clean air?

The debt can never be repaid. Google "where does money come from?"
Money is loaned into existence and created from nothing but must be repaid with interest. Where does the additional money come from to pay the interest?
New debtors. If all the debt was paid off, there would be no money. What a beautiful rigged game of musical chairs. The influx of immigrants add to the pool of new debtors chasing the American Dream and allow the Ponzi to continue on another generation until they teach their children the negative effects of debt. We have forgotten the lessons that our great grandparents learned the hard way from the depression that debt cuts both ways. We as a generation will learn the hard way again that bankers are not your friend and debt is a weapon to be respected.

It's soon to be Cowboys and Indians time. This time we Americans will be the Indians.

I have heard this stuff before. It isn't debt that needs to be created it is an ever increasing amount of consumption to keep all those factories working. When the consumer or govt runs out of cash they put it on the credit card.

I don't think Sweden got that memo:

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What makes you feel this way is perhaps a bit complicated, and its happening with or without immigrants.

Its the removal of individual societies within the United State's ability to make their own laws for their own region/society. What made this country great, is you had pockets that stood up for different ideals, united together for war and economy, yet separate and distinct in law, and culture. We're all getting pushed into one mold. Our education system is putting questions of social value on the tests - and if you don't fit the narrow minded views of the educators - you will be held back in life by lower test scores.