$13k-$15k To Spend: 300ZX or RX7 or 944 Turbo or E46 M3

[slow&rusty]

To my friends - What says you? This would be long term ownership, something to drive and enjoy. These cars were great when new and still are today.

All are rewarding to row through the gears and throw into a corner plus they all take well to tasteful mods without sacrificing reliability.

Matt (whippedpippy) I know your response already..wink.

Not interested in a Boxster or an uber cheap 996.



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asi

Looking forward to read your thoughts.

Cheers!
Yasin

[black_falcon]

Whoa.. tough choice!

3rd Gen RX-7: Beautiful car, wonderful to drive, problematic with apex seals and turbo plumbing IIRC, won't find a nice stock example for 13-15k.

300ZX: I drove a time capsule 50k example last summer; great styling, fun enough to drive, but I was underwhelmed as it felt too much like just a 90's Nissan. Was not a TT which would have probably swayed my opinion.

951: Probably THE next collectible Porsche, aside from early 928's. Great handling and performance. Unreal build quality. Big fun when the boost hits. Timing belt intervals come up quick but its a small complaint.

e46 M3: Lots of car for the money and the most capable of the lot. I've never driven an E46 M3 one so I can't comment further, lots of time in an E36 however. Great cars.

For your budget, I'd find a lower mileage stock 951 and enjoy the ride and investment.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I'm probably selling the RX-7 soon, it would be just a little outside your stated price range but it is a very nice and well sorted car with the reliability modifications done. Shoot me a PM if you'd like to talk.

So I've owned two 951s and my current RX-7, and have driven both the M3 and 300ZX. All are great cars, here's my take on each in a stream of consciousness:

RX-7: in my book, one of the best looking cars of all time and it still holds up today, timeless. Rotary power delivery is like nothing else, super smooth and linear and it pulls like a freight train to 9000 RPM. Very little turbo lag with the stock twins, that goes out the window if you modify it with a big single turbo. Very light and tossable, perfect driver-centric interior layout as long as you fit. Excellent shifter, steering, and brakes. Not super practical, the hatch area is pretty small with the Bose subwoofer that can be removed, I added the JDM rear seats to mine so I can haul kids in a pinch. Not as finicky as the 951, but a pretty complicated car that you have to stay on top of. On the upside the parts aren't super expensive, and it's not terrible to work on. Contrary to their reputation they can be reliable cars, most of the reliability issues are from morons cranking up the boost without any other considerations. Don't buy one that's been neglected, it will make you hate life. Surprisingly quiet on the highway, the doors take a good slam because it is so well sealed. Great long term investment potential in my opinion, cars like the NSX and Supra are already $50k+, I think these will follow. These were close to $50k new and it's said that Mazda still lost money, they set out to create the ultimate expression of the sports car without compromise and I'd say they succeeded. Of these four, it would be my choice. Big shock considering I own one.





951: I've owned both a 1987 and 1988. Another one of my favorite designs of all time, I love the boxed flares and classic Porsche interior. LOTS of turbo lag, even stock they are pretty dead below 2500 RPM. Once the boost comes on it is a rocket. Oddly enough for a Porsche I would rate it as being a much better highway car than a one for around town, the lag makes it very annoying for stoplight to stoplight driving. Very complicated, very difficult to work on, very finicky. I felt like I was always working on mine and they were never quite perfect. Great steering and brakes, pretty mediocre shifter but better than a 915. Not what I would really call a tossable car, but very capable of embarrassing more modern cars, especially when modified. A little more practical than the RX-7 with a decent rear hatch area and small back seats, comfortable interior and good A/C. Stupid sunroof design that is always broken. Sounds like a ricer Civic if you upgrade the exhaust, not inspiring. Ultimately I liked both of mine, but wasn't sad to see either of them go.

300ZX: along with the RX-7, another one of my teenage dream cars. Classic design but it looks very '90s, I don't think it has aged as well as the RX-7. The interior is very functional but again, very '90s. V6 torque and the twin turbos make it nearly lag free, even more so than the RX-7. Bigger than the RX-7 or the 951 and it feels like it, the handling is very capable but it feels more grand touring than sports car. Good steering, the one I drove had a floppy shifter and soggy brakes but also had 100k, so that might not be a totally fair assessment. T-tops tend to squeak and leak. Engine bay access is 951 bad, and they are also fairly complicated cars. Comfortable interior but no back seats, hatch area is decently sized but still not huge. I drove one and liked it but didn't love it.

M3: Classic BMW straight six that really sings at high RPMs, with a quality exhaust they sound incredible. I'm big on cars that sound right, this one will tingle your ears all day long. Nearly perfect steering, brakes, and shifter. Great Recaro seats. Unassuming but also timeless styling. Practical interior with a usable back seat and a large trunk. Bigger feel than the 951 or RX-7, but drives smaller than it is. Crap build quality with cheap materials, get used to replacing everything you touch when doing a project because it will self destruct. Some serious and potentially very expensive issues with carbon build up, VANOS failure, torn rear subframes, and SMG issues (get the stick). Needs valve adjustments every 30k. I love the way the M3 drives, and it would be a perfect fit for my needs right now. So why don't I own one? Because I despise BMW build quality and hate working on them.

[slow&rusty]

Matt - Why are you selling the FD?

[ted]

300ZX not enough performance.

RX7 if it had a small block chevy swap.
Finding a good RX7 mech difficult.

Turbo 944 is fast and fun.
mb not as bullet proof as the BMW.
Its a sleeper, looks like another 944 to the public.

BMW in blue my choice of the 4 photos you posted.

[87maniac]

Have you considered the BMW M Roadster? 240HP These are a blast to drive.

[VincentVega]

I just did a bunch of work to a 90 300zx NA. I'm actually pretty impressed with the car. Timing belt was a bit of a pain put just time. I dont fit very well in the car though, the bmw driving position fits me much better. Like most cars of this age look it over closely. I found a ton of missing clips, connectors, brackets, screws.. Previous owners treated it like any old used car.

[porsche4life]

Interesting choices. I think Matt pretty well nailed it. I also think you will play hell finding a nice rx7 for sub 15k. They are still getting cut for fast and furious body kits at a pretty alarming rate judging by how many veil side and rocket bunny kits I've sold for them recently.

M3 can be made into a rocket ship with a single snail or VF supercharger, but again, at that price point it's going to be a gut wagon.


Obviously biased towards the 944. But cars that were 8k 4 years ago are 12k now and going up. Should be able to find a good one for 15k and not lose money on it. Fun cars to drive too!


Also, the 944 and RX7 are some of the last cars with pop up headlights. How cool are those!?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

Matt - Why are you selling the FD?

Honestly of the many cars that I have bought and sold, this one was the hardest decision to make. I closed my dealership back in June and am just a working man now, so I'm trying to simplify life a little. I don't like using the FD as a daily driver but I really can't justify another weekend cream puff, that's what the SC is for. I'm also aggressively trying to pay off my house, as it's the only debt that the wife and I have. So I picked up a cheap Boxster S as a daily driver, selling the FD should give me some more money that I can throw at my house and a better daily driver. But I will definitely miss it, especially when they are selling for $50k.

[ted]

Dare I mention Corvette in your price range?
A stock 2000/2004 405hp C5 Zo6 is a great GT freeway car.
If you could get above 20k you might find a C6 Z06, big power.

[Joe Bob]

Turbo 944, the rest is trash.....

[biosurfer1]

968?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

https://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/cto/5715216639.html

[aschen]

E46 m3 is a pretty decent car with an absolutely fantastic engine. The fatigue issues in the subframe area scare me though. The installation for the strengthening kits looks like a major PITA

[MysticLlama]

With the M3, you just factor the rear subframe into the price when you buy it. Costs about $1500-2k depending on what you do with bushings, etc. while you have it apart. Then it's done for good.

If I was to buy one now, I'd do exactly what mine had last time in the shop. Rear subframe welding done, all bushings replaced, fresh alignment, valve adjustment, vanos hub inspected, and a few little fixes like oil level sender and a couple other things. $3500 and now I know it's all taken care of.

The SMG is fine if you change the fluid like you're supposed to, the gearbox is the same a the MT, just has the actuator added on. Water pump is metal, not plastic like the lower models, much lower failure rate.

Rear diff needs special fluid from the dealer, $180, don't get anything else.

I believe it's the best thing you can buy for the price they are going for.

No worse than an SC for maintenance, just need to know the quirks.

That said, I've always loved those RX7s.

[VincentVega]

Originally Posted by MysticLlama

With the M3, you just factor the rear subframe into the price when you buy it. Costs about $1500-2k depending on what you do with bushings, etc. while you have it apart. Then it's done for good.

x2

odds are at least a few bushings are bad. Drop the subframe and install the kit. Not a bad job.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Turbo 944, the rest is trash.....

This and it will appreciate in value.

But find a good one.

[slow&rusty]

All great replies. I am not a Vette guy or really not into topless (cars that is..so the M Roadster is not really my cup of tea either).

I had no idea the E46 M3 had frame strength issues, having said that I've done a few sub-frame drops in my time.

I checked a decent '87 951 yesterday, that had lots of $$$ spent on it about 10 years, somewhere in the region of $20k in the hands of that one owner incl. a full engine rebuild. The car was good..not great and had 3 different types of Guards Red paint on it and inconsistent panel gap in the nose / pop-up headlight area. The current owner wanted $14k firm for it. I called back and said I couldn't get there.

[onewhippedpuppy]

With 911s getting pricey, it seems that the 951 isn't far behind. As they become a more of a collector car, they will become less of a bargain. For $8k they were a great deal, at $15k for a driver that math gets a lot harder for me.

[Joe Bob]

Neither is the 914.