Oooh, gotta watch those Tesla updates

[red-beard]

http://investorintel.com/cleantech-intel/tesla-energys-incredible-shrinking-powerwall-warranty/

Tesla Energy’s Incredible Shrinking Powerwall Warranty

On June 21st, Tesla Energy quietly eviscerated the limited warranty for its 6.4 kWh Powerwall “energy storage for a sustainable home.” In an earlier version of the Powerwall Manufacturer’s Limited Warranty Certificate (USA) which is no longer available online, Exhibit A specified the following minimum capacity retention levels:

Here is what they WERE claiming before the changes.

Since regular end of life degradation is considered 80% capacity. Holy crap! It has a REAL cycle life of 925 cycles! The full 3000 cycle, life, the battery degrades to under 4kWh.



NOW, this is what they say:

It appears my speculation about Tesla Energy’s confidence in their capacity retention warranty was well founded because the revised Tesla Powerwall Limited Warranty (USA) published on June 21st eliminates the specific capacity retention requirements of Exhibit A and relies instead on a sweeping exclusion that says:

In addition, this Limited Warranty does not cover (a) normal degradation of your Powerwall’s energy capacity over time; (b) normal wear and tear or deterioration, or superficial defects, dents or marks that do not impact the performance of your Powerwall; (c) noise or vibration that is not excessive or uncharacteristic and does not impact your Powerwall’s performance; (d) damage or deterioration that occurs after the expiration or voiding of the warranty period; or (e) theft of your Powerwall or any of its components.

Under the original Manufacturer’s Limited Warranty Certificate (USA), there were iron clad performance standards that told customers exactly what they could expect over the useful life of a Powerwall. Under the revised Tesla Powerwall Limited Warranty (USA) there are no standards whatsoever.

[legion]

Someone realized what kind of payout they were looking at, and quietly changed the warranty.

[red-beard]

I think this means they are in more trouble than was originally thought.

[Por_sha911]

And all the deception of rigged stats and falsified numbers was funded by you and me. I wonder if someone will try to sue the USA as co-conspirator is this mess.

[red-beard]

Tesla to Miss Revenue Target by $315 Million - Breitbart

[john70t]

After someone has purchased a product on terms, and signed by both parties, how can the contract/eula/cough then be changed? Unilaterally?

[Por_sha911]

Warning: conspiracy theory eminent.
Tesla is too big to fail in that the US govt has invested too much money to admit it was a financially bad investment deal from the start. Tesla will quietly threaten to file bankruptcy if anyone tries to take legal action so the courts will look the other way.

[red-beard]

Mysterious!

The Article at the top has disappeared from the website.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Mysterious!
The Article at the top has disappeared from the website.

The conspiracy theory takes root.

[1990C4S]

There is a rumor in the factory that the home units are built from used car batteries. When the car batteries fail they are disassembled and sorted into good/bad cells. The bad cells are recycled, the good cells are supposedly re-purposed and put into the Powerwall units.

I have no idea if this is true....

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

There is a rumor in the factory that the home units are built from used car batteries. When the car batteries fail they are disassembled and sorted into good/bad cells. The bad cells are recycled, the good cells are supposedly re-purposed and put into the Powerwall units.

I have no idea if this is true....

Recycled? There is no recycling of lithium. Do you have a link to your rumor?

[1990C4S]

Recycled as in the individual batteries are sorted and re-used.

I did not read this on-line, I was told by someone in the factory.

Again, it could be total BS. If it is true, the batteries you receive could have gone through a significant number of cycles.

It seems a bit unlikely to me, but where do the 'good' batteries go when they sort them? Maybe into 'warranty' replacement battery packs for cars.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by john70t

After someone has purchased a product on terms, and signed by both parties, how can the contract/eula/cough then be changed? Unilaterally?

Because no one reads that stuff and it generally contains a provision that states it can be changed at any time.

There have been consumers who've used the "nobody reads them" to their advantage.

https://www.rt.com/business/man-outsmarts-banks-wins-court-221/

[red-beard]

Link broken

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

There is a rumor in the factory that the home units are built from used car batteries. When the car batteries fail they are disassembled and sorted into good/bad cells. The bad cells are recycled, the good cells are supposedly re-purposed and put into the Powerwall units.

I have no idea if this is true....

Again, the bad cells be "recycled" is definitely incorrect. There is no recycling plan for Lithium. The cost of recycled lithium is 5 times that of virgin lithium.

As far as taking used batteries and putting them into the Power Walls, there is no way they could do that. That is fraud. I would expect they could take the used batteries and use them for warranty replacements in the cars as refurbished packs.

[1990C4S]

Not technically recycled. By 'cells' I meant the individual Samsung batteries. There is a machine that tests each individual battery and diverts it to 're-use' or 'scrap'.

I agree, it is unlikely they are putting them into wall units, it's more likely a BS rumor.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by john70t

After someone has purchased a product on terms, and signed by both parties, how can the contract/eula/cough then be changed? Unilaterally?

"By continuing to use this service/product you agree to the terms set forth in this amended contract."

Banks do it, on-line services do it, apparently everyone does it now.

[cairns]

So the innovative icon that so many are in awe of is really an unscrupulous car dealer hiding behind lawyers and ripping off his customers and the public.

Geez who woudda thought?

[wdfifteen]

^^
And the haters care because he sells electric cars.

[cairns]

And the haters care because he sells electric cars.

Ahh another one who thinks Musk is an icon no matter what he does.

FWIW I have nothing against electric cars. I hope they'll get them right. The wife and I are even looking at buying a hybrid for her this Fall. Her X is way past it's sell by and she'll use the car only for short commutes. And I would dearly love to own a 918 or a LaFerrari (like that would ever happen).

I may think Musk is a latter day PT Barnum but I don't hate the guy. I bet his first wife does but that's a different story. And I will admit the thought of a government that's 20 TRILLION dollars in debt subsidizing a billionaire electric car maker who sells cars to millionaires who are so stupid they believe they don't have to keep their hands on the wheel because he told them so is a little disturbing. But the government has done a lot more disturbing crap than this lately.

Do you own a Tesla BTW? The warranty changes are a pretty flagrant rip off. Maybe that's why you're so upset you're calling me a "hater"?

I guess I'd feel like a sucker too if I bought one.