When do you "lose" an argument on PP?
 

Please discuss. SmileWavy

I've got nuthin' to add :)

Well someone put one star on the post. I guess I lost the moment I spoke?

Grammar seems to play a role.

when you can't act like an adult and let it go

When you claim it was a social experiment.

http://hog-blog.com/wp-content/uploa...t_argument.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pray.gif

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when you begin to see discussions as a competitions.

Usually it happens when your position depends on a single firmly-held belief, which turns out to be objectively incorrect, after further examination.

I only know this from friends of friends who have told me so. I've never experienced such an argument in my life. ;)

You guys are all wrong.

And no, I will not do your work for you by looking it up.

I'm thinking it is when the other guy tells you repeatedly over and over again, constantly and inexorably that he is right. This is particularly true in matters of opinion, where there is no subjective right or wrong answer, or in matters of protocol or procedure, where there may in fact be many ways to do something successfully.

It is considered by some that being the last man standing, and conceding no valid points makes one the winner. Clearly, one can determine a winner, just by looking at his post count. I have found however, that losers with low post counts can develop something called a life, where people judge you on your merits, and not by your ability to repeat yourself ad nauseum on the internet, while bringing nothing substantively new to a topic. I will never be a winner by post count alone, therefore to some I will always be the loser for merely stating an opinion without the ridiculous rhetoric that constitutes a ''defense'' of that which is subjective.

SO the next time you find yourself having a discussion on the internet, simply look at the post count of the person you are having the discussion with. If it is four or five ( or 50 ) times higher than your own post count, you might as well go restore a car or get a degree in something, for you have surely already lost.

Sometimes people simply state an opinion so others might see where you stand, or perhaps contemplate a different view. However only losers post opinions, and winners never contemplate. Shame on you for thinking they might.

At which point you have also, quite obviously, lost at life.

I have never lost an argument here.

I've either received a correction to a wrong view of mine, and thus benefited by the correction, which is not a loss, but a gain. Or I just shake my head and enjoy the weather outside as I step away, also not a loss.

I think the only way to genuinely lose an argument on here, is if you make a large bet on a position, and your position fails, then you've lost.

I would also say if you argue with a racist online, you've lost. We have quite a few users here who are racists. I just steer clear as I can.

When you post in a thread about "when do you "lose" an argument to take a shot a folks you lost an argument to.

When you blame your inability to make a superior argument on the other's higher post count...or anything outside the discussion at hand. When you pretend their number of posts actually makes any difference whatsoever to the argument or even bring it up...as it has never occurred to you that the other poster might have been posting here a lot longer, offered much more help in the technical forums, simply has a lot of time in a commute or travelling where they have nothing else to do...or has a higher post count simply because you had far less intelligent discourse to offer.

When you don't realize that they continue repeat the same response because you have once again repeated the same feeble argument they soundly defeated 20 posts ago, 100 posts ago and 200 posts earlier in the same thread...but you bothered to only read the last three posts before responding or simply expected...that because the same dullard argument came from you, everyone would instantly agree (especially if you threw in a couple personal insults about their honesty, parentage, intelligence or implied they had no life).

When you are losing in an argument and you call for others to come to you aid via PM or post that you argument is better because others have not joined the argument on the other side.

When you make some sort of claim/judgment regarding other's penis size, family life, financial situation, marriage, children or life in general based on an unrelated internet argument or make any attempt at psychoanalysis or some sort of thinly veiled inference that the discussion at hand where you are faring so poorly at is a result of anything other than the poor argument you made.

When you join an argument and post solely about another poster without addressing the argument at hand...because they disagreed in another post and piling on slaves your butthurt.

I have never won an argument here...but sure like to formulate and make an argument. I have never caught a really big fish either...and hate to clean the darned things...but fishing is still an interesting and enjoyable pastime.

You lose when you realize that you should never have started the thread and you're tired of responding to posts from those with no actual knowledge but who have plenty of opinions about the subject.

We have a winner.

Haha!

When you rail against God for the way things are like a petulant little girl.

When you mention Nazi's or Hitler

When you mention your education or net worth.

I will put some others up as they occur.

When you say you are leaving a thread only to return, you've probably lost.

Interesting. May I ask you to expound on that?

If during the course of an argument one side compares the other to Hitler or a Nazi. It is a reflex position, a crutch devoid of thought and often lacking in any real meaning relevent to the topic being discussed.

i.e. We need ID's to vote in elections. response- You are such a Nazi wanting to control everyone.

Poor grammar usage? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat5.gif

You lose an argument on Pelican when your posts have so little value, or are so full of vitriol that others block you. At that point, you have lost not only opportunity for intelligent discussion, but also the wonderful drive all night, work all weekend, share the knowledge you will never find in books Pelican comradery that is the most extraordinary part of this site.

angela

Very nice.

Listen to all of the facts. If, based on the facts, you determine that you were wrong, if you can admit it, then you should have learned something. And from a certain point of view, you lost the arguement, but you did not lose.

You can, if you have them present facts. If you see the facts (all of them from both sides) and are certain that your side is correct based on the facts, stop before it devolves to name calling and mud-slinging. Then you won. If you are the name caller and mud-slinger, then you lost whether your point/side of the argument was the factually correct side or not.

The first option is unlikely. Apparently, human nature doesn't work that way.
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

When you are so thoroughly beaten that you go thread to thread looking for a post of the other guy...regardless of topic...so you can take a personal shot at/insult them.

When the thread go dormant after your last pathetic reply; Oh yeah...

Some folks post so much stupidity that its not hard to find them in other posts (not speaking about any one person in particular).

Yes, but the losing part is he fact that you look for them (not speaking about any one person in particular) whether hard to find or easy...and then can't avoid that personal attack (about their grammar, spelling...or another totally unrelated topic or thread). You could post in a thread about hot water heaters or excessive electricity consumption and they would show up and take their shot.

Fint, is your real name Francis? Not a personal attack, I like and respect you, though the thread you reference is nothing but humorous jabs on word play imo.

Lighten up Fint :)

Nothing humorous about screwing up threads with reasonably important topics (at least to an OP who asked for help/advice) to take a cheap shot a poster. It just discourages people from making potentially helpful posts/contributions.

Some are "word play"...some are outright lies or inferences about another poster or previous posts, etc. All unrelated to the topic at hand...all by folks who have scores to settle from previous threads (typically folks who could not make an intelligent argument about a topic in PARF so they take their shots in OT). They are a loser because they cannot move on from some previous poor performance and see the drive-by as some sort of redemption...and they fit the topic here, "When do you lose..." perfectly. Unfortunately, everyone loses. Excusing boorish behavior simply enables it. They keep doing it because they think they are "winning" because some other fool always joins them in piling on...and there is safety in numbers.

Sometimes they even come back and admit their motives...which were exactly as I described. Personal.

But, although you were referring to a specific thread, I am talking about thread after thread. If it only happened once, it would not be nearly so obvious, nor worth discussing...but, the constant recurrence fits well in discussion of "loser" behavior which is what this thread is about. Yep...maybe pointing it out makes me a loser too. But, I am willing to take that jab if pointing it out might help keep one poster from such behavior...as it might mean that one person who hesitates to post due to such silliness, might decide to do so...and might have exactly the information that someone else needs.

When you correct someone's misspelling in an attempt to belittle them or their point, while using poor grammar or misspelling words.

Oh well, there goes the civility in this thread.

Oh BTW, my water heater heats up cold water to make it hot. Just sayin...

Am I the only one that thinks a simple 'Haha!' from fint would have been preferable to botching up two separate threads?

You leave grammar out of this!

She and granpaw were marries for over 70 years!

Am I the only one who thinks that a simple "Haha, I guess I an a loser" from folks like you who do the same thing as we are discussing would have been preferable to you making this remark? How exactly is my response to someone calling me out by name...like you just did...mean that I botched a thread? Guys like you who take shots at other folks in OT instead of the posting about the topic like everyone else botch the thread. You should leave your PARF disappointments in PARF when you come to OT. I know it is hard not to take that cheap surprise shot here...but most folks are able to. Try it.

Mine heats both hot and cold water. Yours must be one of those new tankless water heaters.