sold used car on ebay, paypal charge back!

[k9handler]

Sold the Mercedes (one in my signature block) on eBay awhile back, buyer used PayPal. Buyer was a last second bidder and never contacted me or asked any questions before auction ended. After the winning bid, he asked many questions and I provided answers and further photos as requested. I worked with him to get the car to the shipper, I drove it to a truck stop outside of town at midnight as that is when the shipper arrived. Shipper inspected the car and drove it onto the transporter (open trailer).

The next week the buyer files a dispute with eBay and states the car was not as described, does not run and has damages not listed (all the fault of the transport company). eBay informed the buyer I was not at fault and the used car was as described...at this point I thought this was over.

A few weeks ago I get a notice from PayPal that a charge back has been initiated and I needed to provide information/details of the transaction. I provided them all the information I had to include photos, emails, shipping inspection document, etc. Yesterday I received a notice the charge back was awarded to the buyer and if I did not bring my PayPal balance to a positive balance I would be sent to collections!

So I do not have the car and the buyer has never attempted to discuss sending it back. And now PayPal wants me to send them the funds, while I have nothing to show for it?

Anyone have advice on how to proceed? Lawyer is my thought, but this sounds expensive as the buyer is in Mass and I am in Montana,

So angry with how this is playing out.

[Embraer]

hmmmmm, I thought paypal explicitly states that auto sales are not covered for buyer protection.

[k9handler]

guess not, I have contacted PayPal and requested a supervisor call me to discuss this matter as each time I call it's just a waste of time with the same generic answer from the customer service checklist.

[Embraer]

did he pay full price for the car via paypal, or a deposit?

[k9handler]

both the deposit and balance were paid via PayPal.

[Embraer]

something's not adding up on their end. I have just dealt with this, from a buyer point of view. I got burned from a sketchy florida dealership. paypal'd the price of the car, and I had complete documentation, regarding condition, photos, etc. car was absolutely misrepresented.

I undeniably got hosed (first time ever on an online deal) and paypal simply let me know that motorized vehicles were not covered.

[Embraer]

how can they argue that it outright says here:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security

the motor vehicle policy?

[k9handler]

The charge back was initiated by the buyers credit card company, maybe that is the difference?

[k9handler]

Originally Posted by Embraer

how can they argue that it outright says here:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security

the motor vehicle policy?

I hear you...just so difficult to deal with. I will never use PayPal again, nor use eBay to sell anything.

[Embraer]

most likely. guessing they registered a CC to their paypal account, and then disputed the charges with the CC company.

[k9handler]

thanks for the conversation, time for bed as I need to rest up for this battle.

[Embraer]

good luck. frustrating, indeed!

[dad911]

Originally Posted by k9handler

The charge back was initiated by the buyers credit card company, maybe that is the difference?

That will do it. Paypal doesn't want to take the hit. Probably just threatening you. If they go to collections, you have proof both in their policy and ebay documentation. Hope you didn't have a balance.

If they took anything from your account, I'd go after them.

How far away is buyer? In US?

[Eric Coffey]

Man, that sucks. First thing I would do is file a MA and MT police reports for a stolen vehicle and fraud. Next, I would be blowing up the phone lines/email with PayPal to get to someone that can re-open and/or escalate the case.

I've come across the same issue (screwed-over sellers) with other high-dollar transactions w/ PayPal, and the consensus is that PP is to be avoided unless you are the buyer.
For a vehicle sale, I would only accept stacks of cash, or preferably, a wire transfer.

However, I can't fathom how PayPal can approve a refund/chargeback on a vehicle purchase without confirming that it's back in the seller's possession first.

Also, aren't there any "conditions" that a buyer has to meet to qualify for buyer protection? I know with shippable items, they have to be sent to the "confirmed" address on file. Obviously that wasn't the case here, and if the buyer chose to cheap-out on the transport, that should be on him (and disqualify him from the buyer-protection). Good luck...

[speeder]

Originally Posted by k9handler

I hear you...just so difficult to deal with. I will never use PayPal again, nor use eBay to sell anything.

I sympathize w you completely and hope you come out ok but the problem wasn't selling it on eBay, it was accepting full payment via PayPal. That is generally never done w cars, for the sake of the fees if nothing else. You can sell a car on eBay but never, ever accept anything but a small deposit via pp.

[aigel]

I lost a couple hundred on PayPal before where they helped themselves to money I was refunded by a dead beat seller who never sent the goods. They claimed the refund was unsecured funds (it was too late to be part of the original sales transaction) and I was out the money. They must have used my money to cover refunds on the deadbeat account that they were on the hook for and could not get out of.

IMHO PayPal is a criminal organization, not a bank, and I have not used them since for anything but small transactions, paying with my CC.

I know this is little help to the OP but o wanted to tell the story again to warn others.

G

[djantlive]

You need to remove the bank info from your PayPal account immediately. I would also close that bank account. This prevent PayPal from taking funds from you. They can kiss ur ass trying to collect. They don't have ur social. U should remove ur credit cards on PayPal too.

PayPal screwed me when a fraudster took my money. They won't do anything saying it was my bad trusting the seller. The least they should do is open an investigation or close that seller account.

From now on, pay with a credit card when using PayPal. If you get paid, take ur money out ASAP and don't link ur bank account after that.

[J-Mac]

Aigel, criminal organization, bit much really. They employ 1000s of people worldwide so I doubt that.

OP as you probably know your PP account can be tied to your balance, credit cards, and a bank account. As a seller you don't know which method the buyer will use. If they pay by balance or bank account you are pretty much ok. If the buyer uses their credit card you are now under the CC system and PP are pretty much out of the loop because the buyers cc Bank is claiming a chargeback. Now PP will/should take a neutral stance on this until evidence points them in the right direction. In this case they should go to bat for you, or else their I sellers are always at risk from buyers that use only credit cards. Gather and submit your evidence.

In general it is unwise to accept a large payment (like for a car) from PP, because you don't know if they are using their card to fund it. Take a deposit for sure but insist on a bank transfer, cashiers check etc for large items. The CC system is set up in favor of the buyer, not the seller and PP gas to follow the system rules.

Originally Posted by aigel

I lost a couple hundred on PayPal before where they helped themselves to money I was refunded by a dead beat seller who never sent the goods. They claimed the refund was unsecured funds (it was too late to be part of the original sales transaction) and I was out the money. They must have used my money to cover refunds on the deadbeat account that they were on the hook for and could not get out of.

IMHO PayPal is a criminal organization, not a bank, and I have not used them since for anything but small transactions, paying with my CC.

I know this is little help to the OP but o wanted to tell the story again to warn others.

G

[mikester]

If you look at your CC statement when you buy using Paypal, you're transaction is with Paypal and not with the seller. This makes them the middle man for the transaction, broker you might say.

So technically the buyer using the CC has a claim with Paypal. At the same time the seller has a similar relationship with Paypal. As I see it (so, this would be my consumer opinion but based on experience of course) Paypal is trying to reclaim their lost money by fleecing you.

Like many of the other commentors, Paypal is an evil we are forced to use with eBay. I try to use it as little as possible and I never keep any money in the account and have it associated with a bank account I never leave money in.

[techweenie]

Ebay used to have a "safe harbor" division, but it was purged in about 2008/9 as an overhead reduction measure. Subsequently, Paypal was spun off and is now separate.

You might have some ability to apply pressure via your bank. It wouldn't hurt to ask, as Paypal has a relationship with your bank... I've found social media pressure is very effective, but you need a large following to get the attention of a corporation.

Have you been able to reach a human at Paypal? It seems the vehicle exception is your best chance to prevail now.

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Bank-accounts-and-credit-cards/How-to-actually-SPEAK-to-a-human-being-at-Paypal/td-p/330052

Wish I had better advice on this, but corporations create 'firewalls' to insulate them from issues like this.