Depression era lessons/ thinks taught/ handed down over the generations
 

I just got a pair of shoes tonight and it got me thinking about two stories in my life which are more or less trivial, but interesting to me.
I buy wingtips, which might not be in highest fashion right now, but I like them. I think a lot of that came from my father. His father shined shoes before the depression. When it came time to get me a "good" set of dress shoes, my father took me to the shoe store. Wingtips it was.
Here's the interesting bit (at least for me). Evidently at some point in my father's life, my grandfather had instilled a necessary "quality" of shoes in him. As a teenager, I wore whatever shoes my mom bought me, and as a child of the 80's, it was usually "vans" shoes, which I wore until they fell apart.
This drove my father nuts. He took it as an insult and on several occasions lambasted me for wearing ripped shoes. He took it personally and informed me he worked hard to keep shoes on our feet, and there was no need to walk around in tattered footwear. As a teenager in a world of accessible shoes, I was just being a teenager and never meant the degraded nature of my shoes to be a statement.
The same went for food. As a teenager, I liked bread. Plain good old bread. Again, my father would be offended and remind me he worked hard so we didn't have to rely on bread alone. Like the shoes, he felt it an insult to his hard work and dedication to the family. The ironic thing is that our family was well off financially. Due to my father's hard work, we were more than okay. He had nothing to prove to the neighbors (so to speak).
My father was not born until 1945, so I am assuming his concerns about his ability to provide were more deeply rooted in what his father taught him. At that point my grandfather worked in the FBI and was himself stably employed.
I have always been grateful for what he has provided, and by wearing old sneakers or eating plain bread never meant to insult anyone, however, in both cases, one would think I was talking straight to a depression era individual in a time where "holes in shoes" or "only being able to supply bread" would have meant so much more.
I don't know how much of that was my father, or my grandfather talking. I am also cognizant we could return to such a time, but, I was wondering if there were any other stories like that.

No stories, just an insight.

Made me think of the earlier thread about saving things until retirement.

Your father's mentality was good. Perhaps a little harsh with the shoes :p, but in the right place.

Enjoy what you have in the present. Not irresponsibly so, but enough. We work to enjoy the things we love (hopefully). That joy could come from sending your kids through school, or a Porsche. It all boils down to moderation.

Good story.

By appearing poor, you made your father look poor. He did not want to look poor.
It's the same logic many men have when they have a wife that does not work.
It is a form of conspicuous consumption and a way to indirectly signal status.

+1

Not a depression mentality, more of living up to his perception of social standards.

Half of what I tell you is based upon that depression era sensibility. Both my parents were deeply effected seeing money as security.

My Dad as a young man was a natty dresser and as such wanted me to be dress nicely to. At a time when blue jeans and a tee shirt was what I would rather wear. From him I learned the meaning of quality. I remember his having Florsheim, Johnson and Murphy, Cole Haan and French Shriner shoes. My Dad for quite a few years wanted a pair of Bally shoes, finally a year or so before he died he bought a pair. On sale.

So it is from him that I understand cloths. Today those old American made Gunboat Florsheim Imperial Long Wingtips are in demand WORLD WIDE. So out of style NOT.

That's it. I'ma throwing out all my pants and going with nothing but ASS-DRAGON JEANS from here on out baby! Yee-haaa!!

Undoubtedly would improve your wardrobe and looks...

BTW All the vintage American made Long Wings that I find that fit I keep. Primarily Hanover, Florsheim, Dexter, Jarman and a host of others.

Buying disposable stuff is throwing money away.

My grand parents told me shoes were expensive during the depression and if you were lucky to get a new pair they were to be cherished. They also made a point of saying poor people wore gym shoes. So wing tips were a class marker.

If ever in WI, tour the Allen Edmond factory. That is how shoes should be made.

Apparently walking around with a toothpick in your mouth originated during the depression.

Toothpicks weren't common. If you had one you must have just come from a meal at an expensive restaurant ???

The OP's father was an early boomer, born shortly after the war as was I. He undoubtedly got his values from his Depression Era parents, but by the time he was old enough to "understand," he was smack in the post-war era where the above two posts apply.

I, too, can relate to the OP's stories as I was raised in the same social/economic environment as his father. Family image was important, not only in appearance but in behavior. The Depression Era values came out in the "Don't waste food--finish your meal" directives and the overall value put on practicality/durability of goods over form or fashion, as well as the "save for a rainy day" approach to money and spending. These are the messages I grew up with and, in modified form, have passed on to my children who are probably close to the OP in age. I didn't go as far as be concerned about shoes or bread, but the overall "look" of my children (three daughters) was important--especially for my wife.

I spent a lot of time with my grand pap growing up. Mothers side . I leaned so much from that man, and there is no one person that I have a higher respect for .
He told me lots of stories about his youth, and taught me many lessons, but never told me about this .
After his death, my mother told me this story. My grandfather was embarrassed of this , and never spoke of it to any of us grandchildren .
During the depression, his family had nothing. His father, in an attempt to feed the family, took him on a robbery. They were trying to steal food from a store of some sorts . At 10 years old, my grandfather witnessed his own father getting shot down dead.
My grandpap, was the only male in the family, 6 daughters and at 10 years old, he had to step up to the plate, and take the over the wheel . He did, and he actually ended up doing pretty well for himself also .
He was a strongly religious man, a very fair and kind man . He taught me so much about what it means to be a man, and a good person . It is where I got my work ethic from , and where I learned the value of being resourceful, and not being wasteful .
My wife calls me cheap .

My parents were in HS during the depression. They were from a small town area. Dad worked all the time not only at his job, but also found other things to do. His joy was in gardening and fishing that also put food on the table. Mom did sewing. They never threw anything away they thought might be useful or repairable. You could never park a car in their garage because it and the attic was full of stuff almost like you see the hoarders houses but no trash.

At 8 years old my Dad helped me mow yards and get money. Basically taught me his work ethic. Then told me I could and let me spend the money on anything I wanted. He would tell me about how he raised a couple of hogs to sell and was really looking forward to the money from them. Then one day when he came home from school the hogs were gone and his father gave him a new pair of seersucker overalls. He had used the rest of the money for the family. He never actually told me what I could or couldn't spend my money on, however he did make comments on the things. If it was cheap and didn't last he would comment that I could have waited a little longer, saved my money, spent more and got something that would last. When I bought something too expensive and ended up not using it much he would comment how I could have probably shopped around and gotten a better deal and had more money for other things. If there was something specific I was looking and saving for he would help me find the best place to get it and even haggle on the price. Taught me to look for good value and to wait and save for the things I wanted that I thought were the best value.

Clothing and shoes wise never cared much about and wore whatever Mom got or made. She often shopped in factory seconds stores knowing what too look for. The seconds she got me were usually the newest trend stuff. Sometime even before they were available in the regular stores. So much so that I found I was usually one of the trend setters.

After college complained once to my Mom that I hated going clothes shopping. From then until her late 80's she would take me to fabric shops and let me pick out the patterns and materials for shirts. So always had custom tailor made button down shirts and sports shirts. It cost pennies compared to buying shirts and it only took her about two hours to cut out and make a shirt. Found later that my older brother was really jealous of my shirts with the tag in the neck "Made especially for you by Mom." All he would of had to do was ask and go thru the fitting. She told me she enjoyed making the shirts and to prove it she got the tags for the neck made.

As far as being resourceful, Dad always helped me fix thing even though most of the time is was just watching while I did it. And there was LOTS of stuff they had saved to use.

In canada it is a tradition that the finance minister buys new shoes to wear when announcing the new budget. If he is wearing old shoes, it is a sign that it will be a belt tightening year.

I shop at Thrift stores. I bought those draggin azz bj's for $10....on Amazon $1000. Now do ya know why I bought them?

I bought 9 Brioni sport shirts for $6 each... $54. Those shirts cost $600 each at Neiman Marcus..or $5400. Do you hear the Depression talking in that?

AE's are Goodyear welted which can be resoled again and again so long as the uppers and insoles are in good condition. Alden and Johnston Murphy are the other two that still make shoes like that in the USA. All the others are gone or are overseas, usually making junk.

Yeah, and we know that you lived through it, so that explains a lot too.

:D

I sold a pair of 60 year old French Shriner wings to a guy in Japan for $80 plus ship.

No but that was how I was brought up. My parents never stopped living the Depression.

My dad would buy really nice cloths for me as a kid, BUT we went to the garment district to buy them wholesale.

After my mom died, my dad took his Gf's and me to a nice restruant. For desert I ordered a $7 Banana Foster. I never heard the end of that. I finally got him off my back about that when I told him I learned how to make it. It was educational so that made it ok.

Thanks for all the replies.
Perhaps my dad's actions weren't related to how he was brought up, maybe they were... who knows. The bread thing always stuck me as funny.

One other trait which reminded me of depression era thinking was that he's a hoarder. Like tabs, he loves the thrill of the good deal. He would buy stuff he didn't even need because of the deal, never use it, and never get rid of it, to the point where there was so much stuff, it wasn't even find-able or functional when he needed it. His entire house(s) are packed to the brim with 99 year projects.
I guess I got that gene too, and have to actively avoid auctions and such. I also throw out what many would consider to be perfectly good stuff. My pack rat sense tells me not to and I should be more frugal like the depression era thinking, but I also know where it will lead from a hoarding standpoint if left unchecked. There's a lot of guilt with that. I found a 944/951 electric window switch today while cleaning the garage. Don't need it. Too nice to throw out, but it's gotta go. Not really worth the hassle of advertising/ picturing/ selling either. Anybody want it for free:D? .. Oh yeah, that spare 951 engine block still laying around... etc... etc...

Almost forgot- I am a huge Allen Edmonds fan myself. Pictured is the sole off of a pair of Cole Haans from Jos A Banks $150-$200????. They are garbage and I used to go through cheaper shoes like this in no time. Soles are made out of some cardboard material and my shoe guy tried to resole a pair once and couldn't get the glue to stick properly to the carboard. Imagine that. Next to is is a AE sole (partially pictured), but it has more than twice the useage and has worn less. It's not really pictured, but you can see that the bottom stitching has twice as dense stitching on the soles.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1475442604.jpg

There's a reason those clothes are at the thrift store.

Cole Haan is owned by the Chinese now. Not the same construction anymore. I don't even consider them as quality shoes now. Sad.

Nike owns C&H.

The guy died? Ahh for me to make money on? So I can dress nicely for next to nothin? I give up what reason?

Perhaps not everyone wants to wear leisure suits, baby blue tuxedos, and Micheal Jackson Thriller shirts in 2016.

Without going full-tabs, I can second the love for real shoes. Have many pairs of AEs and a wolverine 1000 mile on its fourth set of soles.

My parents were middle class (both born 1948, we were a one middle-management income family) and they really pushed the "buy right, cry once" mentality. We didn't have everything, but what we had was well planned, saved for, and is still lasting forever.

I think my grandparents' experience drove this mentality. Born 1916-1020, they lived through the depression and the war.

We're spoiling our 3-yo, like all parents, but at some point I hope to instill these same values into her. ...

Nike owns C&H.

To reiterate. American shoe mfg largely ceased around the year 2000. Many of the brands went to China, India and Brazil to maintain PRICE POINT. The shoes initially made in those counties were nearly as good as the American made ones. Over time to maintain Price Point they have cut quality. So now they have become disposable and wear out quickly. It is especially noticeable with the soles of the shoes.

Good Italian shoes have become 500 up pairs of shoes, with the real deal north of 700. As a result Spain, Portugal and Romania are affordable at the 300 mark. However the quality is not as good as even 10 years ago. That is also true of clothing, the vintage cloths are of better quality and as such is a better buy. This is why those old Florsheim Imperial Long wingtips with the 5 nails and V cleats are in demand on a world wide basis.

There are three type of shoes construction.

1. Goodyear Welting..where the sole is stitched around the outside of the shoe to the upper. These shoe can be resoled multiple times as long as the uppers and insole remain in good condition. Allen Edmonds, Alden and many of the more expensive shoes use this method.

2. Blake stitching where the sole is stitched to the inside of the upper. These too can be resoled but needs special equipment to do. Many of the better brands like Ferragamo, Polo Italian have a lessor line of Blake stitched shoes.

3. Glue where the sole is glued to the upper...when they wear out throw them away.

Try Brioni suits (a friend found 2 6K each suits that fit him for $60), Zegna Sport coats, slacks, shirts, sweater, ties and shoes, Zanella Italian wool slacks etc.

Maybe you should visit Neiman Marcus to see how a well dressed man dresses, and then wouldn't act the fool. . BTW Trump wears custom Brioni suits at 17K each.

Brioni suit from 1978 is not what Trump is wearing. Triple pleats in chocolate brown?

Grey and a Navy wt chalk line pinstripe 3 button. Classic tailoring. You still are playing the fool. They are some nice things to be had for next to nothing.

Chalk stripes are very outdated.
3 button is also very outdated.
I would not wear that stuff in public.
You get what you pay for.

Shameful admission -

I'm 5'8" and have a three button suit. With pleats and cuffs.

Heading off to the bonfire now...

talk about a fashion whore..If you wouldn't wear those suit you would be a fool.

There are cloths that are timeless, fashion comes in goes out and come back in.

Do you wear bell bottoms and suede jackets with fringe on casual Friday?

People that can drop 6K for a suit usually don't deep six them because of one more button or less. Usually a suit of that caliber is Classically tailored to withstand the vargries of this weeks fashion.

The exception for myself is that you could not get me to own or wear double breasted even if it were the raging fashion of the week.

Further guys who buy Brioni suits have the money to do so, they are usually older, are highly paid professionals or business men who would by nature be dressed more conservatively, wearing more classic styles for their business applications. .

Tabs, I would like to see a photo of you all glammed out in your best duds. Put your money where your mouth is.

Tabs
Nike sold Cole Haan in 2012 to a private equity group. It is Chinese money running it now.
Cole Haan quality was actually ok under Nike.