Electric Postal Vans?

[jyl]

Deutsche Post needed a new local postal delivery vehicle. They wanted an electric vehicle. VW and other large automakers refused to build one. DP bought a startup company that had developed one, and is now building 5000/year. VW is now angry that it wasn't given the contract. VW 'annoyed' it won't get order for electric vans it didn't make

The US Postal Service is using local mail delivery vans that are 25 years old. They were built by Grumman, and have been impressively long lived. However, they get less than 16 mpg and it is getting to be time to replace them. Will the USPS buy electric vans? U.S.P.S. 'Long Life' Vehicles Last 25 Years, But Age Shows Now

Methinks postal vans would be perfect for electric. On urban and suburban routes, they drive <20 miles/day. They are constantly being turned on and off. Post office sorting centers have large flat roofs that could be covered with solar panels, and could have battery banks so that the vans can be recharged at night.

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by jyl

Methinks postal vans would be perfect for electric. On urban and suburban routes, they drive <20 miles/day. They are constantly being turned on and off. Post office sorting centers have large flat roofs that could be covered with solar panels, and could have battery banks so that the vans can be recharged at night.

We're talking about the US gov't. That makes too much sense.

[Holger]

The Deutsche Post vans are very cool. I see it in my driveway every day.

As far as I know Deutsche Post didnt even ask the manufacturers, they decided to build their own vehicle "based on what they saw".

[Arizona_928]

Llv's are the bottom of the barrel. They all have a known trait of roll away/runway that has killed many many many people. Mostly caused by a cheap tree gear switch that loves to pop into reverse from park, and the e brake is pure rubbish. Which is why you see the post man turn on and off the truck all the time.
In Arizona 2 llv's caught fire in one week. Those trucks Belong in the crusher, and comparison to them is just not accurate.
Anyways back OP. A local metro route is very feasible as miles are not racked up on them. However rural routes will do 100 mi + per day and trucks will be on routes close to 12 hours.

[wdfifteen]

No reason to stick to one-size-fits-all. Buy electrics for the routes where they are appropriate and get gas or LP trucks for the rest. Miles per day isn't the operative factor with postal vans. It's the repetitive stopping and accelerating that drains the batteries. They would need a regenerative system to regain some of that.
The Grumman trucks they use around here are falling apart. Time to replace them.

[1990C4S]

They could use NG for rural, there must be space for a decent sized tank.

[island911]

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

We're talking about the US gov't. That makes too much sense.

In Hawaii it might make sense. (energy is expensive there, and it's sunny)

Just about everywhere else it does not come close.

Weird how some still believe that electric cars are some sort of undeniably awesome alternative. They are not. Electric cars are exceedingly expensive against the backdrop of massive petro reserves and existing infrastructure.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by island911

In Hawaii it might make sense. (energy is expensive there, and it's sunny)

Just about everywhere else it does not come close.

Weird how some still believe that electric cars are some sort of undeniably awesome alternative. They are not. Electric cars are exceedingly expensive against the backdrop of massive petro reserves and existing infrastructure.

Gas engines don't like to be started and stopped every couple of minutes. Electric doesn't care.

The expensive part of an electric car is the battery, and for <20 miles/day you don't need much battery. We're not talking a Telsa here.

As for running costs, according to this https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf
it looks like an electric car will have cost/mile about 1/2 to 1/3 of a gas car. Assuming 20 cent/kWh electricity and $3.00/gal gas.

[DanielDudley]

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/10/germanys-bundesrat-votes-to-ban-the-internal-combustion-engine-by-2030/

[island911]

Originally Posted by jyl

Gas engines don't like to be started and stopped every couple of minutes. Electric doesn't care. ....

I know what you're getting at, but whether or not an engine 'cares' depends on the design.

I'll be impressed if UPS takes on such electric configuration. --They build their own delivery vehicles, iirc.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by jyl

Gas engines don't like to be started and stopped every couple of minutes. Electric doesn't care.

That's not the least bit true. My Panamera shuts the engine off every time I stop, sometimes hundreds of times in traffic.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Scott R

That's not the least bit true. My Panamera shuts the engine off every time I stop, sometimes hundreds of times in traffic.

Will your Panamera last 25 years?

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by jyl

Will your Panamera last 25 years?

I'm certain it will.

[1990C4S]

The auto-shut off isn't there because it's good for the engine or good for the starter.

Yes, some cars have that feature. That fact in and of itself does not make it 'ideal'.

[island911]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

The auto-shut off isn't there because it's good for the engine or good for the starter.

Yes, some cars have that feature. That fact in and of itself does not make it 'ideal'.

Sure, sure... And gas engines and electric motors Don't like having variable rpm.

Does that sound ridiculous? It's just as true as JYL's assertion about start stop.

When optimizing engines -gas or electric- a single RPM is easiest, and will have the highest efficiency.

But really, if we are making postal vehicles all electric, we really are first interested in something other than energy efficiency. --the goal has moved to a political play.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by island911

I know what you're getting at, but whether or not an engine 'cares' depends on the design.

It works well with the long haul...given today's infrastructure.
It's been that way for a hundred years.

But the ICE is still about 20% efficient, at best.
Speed up. Stop. Reverse direction. Speed up.
Great for pumping out wells.
Now let's add much more power and design it for every load variable under the sun!

Who ever thought that was a great idea?


Hybrid/DI/Lamda/etc are all band-aids to make up for lack of true efficiency.

[island911]

true efficiency...

This is something engineers live for. In an engineer's world, optimization is king.

And where does that optimization land, time and time again?

hint, you have one in your garage.

This OP notion --of post office PV solar panels, charging batteries, such that postal vehicles can then have those mobile batteries charged, so that they can convert that power back to fwd motion the next day-- is fraught with layers of inefficiencies.

[island911]

... and expense. Which, is simply another way of saying layers of inefficiencies.

That is, battery tech is expensive to produce and is used where the (limited) lifetime cost can be justified.

PV Solar tech is expensive to produce and is used where the (limited) lifetime cost can be justified.

Both technologies have diminishing energy returns. To wit, the iphone 4 that can't hold a charge anymore.

JYL, if you see a path to saving the USPS a bunch of money wouldn't others, say Elon sho-me Govt money Musk, be all over that already?

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by island911

And where does that optimization land, time and time again?

hint, you have one in your garage.

Turbo-Diesel, manual tranny, or turbo-Diesel CVT. Or diesel electric.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by island911

But really, if we are making postal vehicles all electric, we really are first interested in something other than energy efficiency. --the goal has moved to a political play.[/COLOR]

Cost efficiency is what we should be interested in.