Importing a car to USA from overseas

[Aerkuld]

Giving this some serious thought, either from the UK or Italy depending on where I get the best car/deal.

I'm looking at a pre '75, so no issues with FMVSS, DOT, EPA, CARB, etc.

Any advice, horror stories, pitfalls to avoid etc.?

Also, anyone have any good contacts in the S.F. Bay area for freight forwarding, shipping, customs, etc.

You guys have helped me with some huge unknowns in the past, so I'm counting on you again.

Thanks in advance.

[Paul K]

There's a guy on the Defender Source forum who does a lot of this. Go check it out. His screen name is Uncle Douglas, aka Doug Crowther. Good luck!

[ckissick]

You will need a registered importer. I imported my Tristar from Germany in 2006 through Barry Taylor Enterprises in Richmond CA. The seller in Germany took care of shipping from Germany, and Barry Taylor took care of everything once it got to California. The seller was a used car dealer specializing in exporting Tristars all over the world.

It went smoothly, but took 9 months. It took a few months just for the EPA to let it leave the dock in Port Hueneme. I had to get the speedo and headlights changed, and get it smogged, which you won't have to do.

You could call Peter at Van Cafe in Santa Cruz and ask him about registered importers. He may have a cheaper and better recommendation than Barry Taylor.

[LakeCleElum]

I brought a pre '75 motorycle in from Canada with no title. The excellent advice I received from Customs:

Contact the customs office at the port of entry you plan to use. Ask to speak to a supervisor and record their name. Ask what you need for documentation.

It worked for me. When the day came and I started getting questions, I answered with the name and what I had been told. Breezed thru in 5 minutes with a one page form.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

Giving this some serious thought, either from the UK or Italy depending on where I get the best car/deal.

I'm looking at a pre '75, so no issues with FMVSS, DOT, EPA, CARB, etc.

Any advice, horror stories, pitfalls to avoid etc.?

Also, anyone have any good contacts in the S.F. Bay area for freight forwarding, shipping, customs, etc.

You guys have helped me with some huge unknowns in the past, so I'm counting on you again.

Thanks in advance.

Word of caution as you, I believe, live in California.

Imported cars that were not made specifically to be sold in the U.S. have to meet higher, more expensive standards, if they are MY 68 or newer. It does not matter if the car meets all the Fed requirements. Note below, from the DMV website:

1968 model year to 1974 model year vehicles: California does not recommend the purchase or importation of these years of NON-USA vehicles, even if currently registered in another state. These vehicles require compliance with USEPA requirements in effect on the specific date of 11/15/1972. This provision when written, was considered by the California legislature as a gradual phase-out of very dirty "non-collectable" types of imports, as this specific requirement was understood to become increasingly difficult to meet. Today, this requirement, while not impossible to meet, would require testing expenses and modifications that far exceed most vehicles value and would make little sense from a collectors standpoint to attempt. Some limited exemptions apply to individuals moving to California with vehicles of these years registered in their home state for at least a year before moving to California. Contact us for more information. (Emphasis, mine.)

Before you go ahead and make a purchase, I suggest you contact the DMV directly, inform them of the make, model, and year of a potential purchase, and have them explain the registering process. I have read threads on other forums in which an owner, in Ca., purchased a pre-75 import, got all the fed paperwork in order, submitted his paperwork for registration to Ca., only to receive, in the mail, a notice that he must send the car through the expensive testing and retro-fitting required by the state.

Forewarned is forearmed.

[javadog]

The UK and Italy are probably the two worst countries to import a car from, in that the cars there get used up pretty fast.

JR

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

Word of caution as you, I believe, live in California.

Imported cars that were not made specifically to be sold in the U.S. have to meet higher, more expensive standards, if they are MY 68 or newer. It does not matter if the car meets all the Fed requirements. Note below, from the DMV website:
(edited)
Before you go ahead and make a purchase, I suggest you contact the DMV directly, inform them of the make, model, and year of a potential purchase, and have them explain the registering process. I have read threads on other forums in which an owner, in Ca., purchased a pre-75 import, got all the fed paperwork in order, submitted his paperwork for registration to Ca., only to receive, in the mail, a notice that he must send the car through the expensive testing and retro-fitting required by the state.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Oh bu99er!

Well, possibly not . . .

My case may well be on the fence. The particular car I'm looking at is clearly a 1967 (or earlier) based on certain detail features (model year changes), but it looks as though it wasn't registered until early 1968. I have asked the seller if there is any documentation at all which could indicate the earlier production date, and whether they will share the VIN to give me a clearer idea of the date of manufacture. It's possible I could argue the case that it is clearly a 1967 model, but I don't want to get it here then find I have to do something drastic, like register it in another state.


Great advice, I'd missed that particular nuance - thank you!

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by ckissick

You will need a registered importer. I imported my Tristar from Germany in 2006 through Barry Taylor Enterprises in Richmond CA. The seller in Germany took care of shipping from Germany, and Barry Taylor took care of everything once it got to California. The seller was a used car dealer specializing in exporting Tristars all over the world.

It went smoothly, but took 9 months. It took a few months just for the EPA to let it leave the dock in Port Hueneme. I had to get the speedo and headlights changed, and get it smogged, which you won't have to do.

You could call Peter at Van Cafe in Santa Cruz and ask him about registered importers. He may have a cheaper and better recommendation than Barry Taylor.

Ah! My uncle probably knows of Van Café as he has an '87 Syncro.

Thanks, I'll follow up on those leads if I can find resolution to the above issue.

Presumably you were able to find a way around this pre '68 rule because a similar model was available in the US at the time?

[petrolhead611]

WE have an old VW van specialist here in Leeds who has been a customer of mine, if I can be of any help.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

Oh bu99er!

Well, possibly not . . .

My case may well be on the fence. The particular car I'm looking at is clearly a 1967 (or earlier) based on certain detail features (model year changes), but it looks as though it wasn't registered until early 1968. I have asked the seller if there is any documentation at all which could indicate the earlier production date, and whether they will share the VIN to give me a clearer idea of the date of manufacture. It's possible I could argue the case that it is clearly a 1967 model, but I don't want to get it here then find I have to do something drastic, like register it in another state.


Great advice, I'd missed that particular nuance - thank you!

This is your best bet, IMO.^^^

If you can get confirmation of the model year, either by knowing the VIN or by title papers, that will suffice for the DMV. Note, many European countries date the model year of the vehicle by the manufacture date, not the model year nor the first registration date. Thus, a vehicle that was manufactured in, say, October of 1967 would be identified as a 1967 even though the manufacturer designated it a 1968 MY vehicle. I've seen this happen to VW's and Porsches from Europe.

In your case, it would be important to know when the car was actually built (month and year) and which month the manufacturer switched model year productions. That information, along with the VIN should make clear what model year you are considering. The hitch in all of this will be the paperwork, however. If the paperwork designates a 1968 model year (not just first ownership or registration), it may be impossible to convince the DMV bureaucracy that it is an earlier car. Perhaps going to the DMV with the VIN and a legitimate resource which shows the VIN within the year your describe will work.

[aigel]

Unless you are looking for a specific car that was not available in NA, you are much better off to get a car from CA, even at a perceived premium. Anything run in Britain will be a mess in terms of rust and grime. Italy a little less, but the more affluent areas in the North are also pretty bad.

Last time I was reminded of this was when I did my 993 struts and read these instructions. Look at all the crap / rust / grime on this car. Jackals racetrack My CA car is like new underneath in comparison.

G

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

This is your best bet, IMO.^^^

If you can get confirmation of the model year, either by knowing the VIN or by title papers, that will suffice for the DMV. Note, many European countries date the model year of the vehicle by the manufacture date, not the model year nor the first registration date. Thus, a vehicle that was manufactured in, say, October of 1967 would be identified as a 1967 even though the manufacturer designated it a 1968 MY vehicle. I've seen this happen to VW's and Porsches from Europe.

In your case, it would be important to know when the car was actually built (month and year) and which month the manufacturer switched model year productions. That information, along with the VIN should make clear what model year you are considering. The hitch in all of this will be the paperwork, however. If the paperwork designates a 1968 model year (not just first ownership or registration), it may be impossible to convince the DMV bureaucracy that it is an earlier car. Perhaps going to the DMV with the VIN and a legitimate resource which shows the VIN within the year your describe will work.

The plot thickens - some interesting information!

One particular car I'm looking at isn't year-identifiable by VIN except that it was produced sometime between a range of dates. The paperwork shows it's date of first registration (sale and registration by a customer) as 1968. However, I do know that the model change from MKI to MKII happened in 1967 and there are VERY obvious features which differentiate the two versions. This is clearly a MKI, so pre-January 1st '68.

Now another bit of interesting information. I was looking at a local CA car for sale which is a 1968 (and clearly a MKII). The guy imported it himself and ran into this exact problem. I have been corresponding with him and he said it took him over a year of back and forth with CARB. They are the ones who need to approve it, not the DMV it seems. The DMV only want to know whether CARB have approved the car.

Anyway, his conversations with CARB were basically along the lines of, "It needs a letter from the manufacturer saying it would meet 1968 - 1972 emissions regulations". He responds that the manufacturer no longer exists, so that isn't possible. Then they came back and said it needs testing, in either Napa or Sacramento. However, those CARB agencies to which he was directed no longer have the ability to perform that test. The bottom line was, after a year, he was given a letter by CARB saying that they'd certify his car because they didn't have the ability to test it. What a cluster!

I'm going to dig a little deeper and seek the help of an importer. I'm going to try and get a pre-approval from CARB by documenting the car and the identifying MKI features along with VIN number and year range.

At the same time I'm focusing my search on pre-'68 cars. I'll beat them somehow!

I'll let you know how it works out, unless anyone has any other words of wisdom?

Again, that so much for identifying this issue. I thought I'd found everything but I was wrong!

[Aerkuld]

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

UPDATE:

Total change of plan. Rather than risk importing a car which may get stuck in processing for a year, I re-evaluated the situation and decided to change my search criteria to a pre-1968 car.

Originally Posted by javadog

The UK and Italy are probably the two worst countries to import a car from, in that the cars there get used up pretty fast.

JR

This is good advice also, so I found a car in Finland - yes, I know . . .

Anyway, I'm working out the fine details right now, but there is soon to be a 1965, FIA documented, Morris Mini historic rally car heading my way - totally unburdened by CARB, EPA, NHTSA regulations.

[bcgreen]

No really big issues getting my car here from France. It's a 1976 Carrera

[Rick Lee]

Set up a PO Box in Mohave Co., AZ and register it there. No smog or safety inspection. Have the mail forwarded to you. You will have to take the car to the DMV one time for a physical VIN inspection and then never again. Everything can be done and renewed by mail.

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Set up a PO Box in Mohave Co., AZ and register it there. No smog or safety inspection. Have the mail forwarded to you. You will have to take the car to the DMV one time for a physical VIN inspection and then never again. Everything can be done and renewed by mail.

There are no issues with a 1965 car. Sneaks under the radar of all the California regulations. Never needs checking, and no barriers to importation.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

UPDATE:

Total change of plan. Rather than risk importing a car which may get stuck in processing for a year, I re-evaluated the situation and decided to change my search criteria to a pre-1968 car.



This is good advice also, so I found a car in Finland - yes, I know . . .

Anyway, I'm working out the fine details right now, but there is soon to be a 1965, FIA documented, Morris Mini historic rally car heading my way - totally unburdened by CARB, EPA, NHTSA regulations.

LOL, I've been looking at Mini Coopers as well--that's why I'm so up to date with the California CARB regs. As I read through your posts, I was envisioning the changes in Mini body styles without even knowing that was the car to which you referred.

Definitely a premium for already registered Ca. cars, pre-1975. If you've been shopping, then you know of the countless late model Minis that are tagged with early VINs and incorrect registration model years. Lots of them out there with owners playing "dumb" about the falsification of the VIN.

Keep us posted on your purchase progress.

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

LOL, I've been looking at Mini Coopers as well--that's why I'm so up to date with the California CARB regs. As I read through your posts, I was envisioning the changes in Mini body styles without even knowing that was the car to which you referred.

Definitely a premium for already registered Ca. cars, pre-1975. If you've been shopping, then you know of the countless late model Minis that are tagged with early VINs and incorrect registration model years. Lots of them out there with owners playing "dumb" about the falsification of the VIN.

Keep us posted on your purchase progress.

Oh yes, especially when you know exactly what to look for!

I've seen some blatant VIN swaps, some very rusty cars, looked at a few total restoration projects, and then some genuine, very nice examples. It's a minefield, but they all seemed expensive for what they were. When you consider I bought my last Mini in the UK, a 1980 car purchased around '88/'89 for the equivalent of $1000 I guess anything seems overpriced.

The particular car I have found is very clearly genuine, VIN ties it to a Cowley produced car of the correct vintage and a factory LHD. On top of that it looks exceptionally clean, well prepared, and, even with import costs, it's a realistic price. Now, how the car compares to my memories of my Mini having owned several Porsches in between remains to be seen.

I'll post some photos later.

[amg463]

i don't mind there being no information but the worst thing I find on forums is misinformation. There's a lot of it in this thread. Namely a requisite for a "Registered importer". Completely unnecessary. Don't take any advice from anyone who hasn't imported a car themselves. Meaning someone who actually did all the work and didn't simply sign over power of attorney to a 3rd party.

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by amg463

i don't mind there being no information but the worst thing I find on forums is misinformation. There's a lot of it in this thread. Namely a requisite for a "Registered importer". Completely unnecessary. Don't take any advice from anyone who hasn't imported a car themselves. Meaning someone who actually did all the work and didn't simply sign over power of attorney to a 3rd party.

The problem, I think, is that there are so many variables.

If you have a pre '68 car there is one set of instructions.

If you have a '68 - '75 car there's another set of instructions IF you're in California, but not anywhere else.

etc. . . .

It's all dependent upon what you have and where you are.

To my understanding, a registered importer IS required if anything needs to be done to the car before it can meet whatever applicable standards are required.

I understand your point, but as with any advice, one would be advised to receive it and investigate further. One has to be able to sift the useful from the superfluous. Personally, I have appreciated peoples feedback on this matter and have learned something new.