home builder question - Page 2

CalPersFatCat · 01-22-2017, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mreid

Slightly off topic, but important. My wife and I are building a summer home on a lake in NY. You won't have the NY related issues we are having: protecting the lake from runoff, protecting any trees over 8" in diameter, 100' setback from any wetlands, local approval (neighbors) of home plan, and the latest ensuring the long eared bat is not nesting in the area.

Site preparation on raw land can be very expensive. Ours is wooded and perched between a mountain and the lake. We do not have any utilities other than electric and internet/cable at the entrance. Between the well ($8-10k), septic ($12-20k), driveway (1/4 mile, $30k), clearing and grading ($7-10k/acre), electricity ($10/foot), permits, surveying ($5-20k) and other costs you would be surprised how quickly site prep adds up. Spend some time analyzing the entire cost if you haven't already. Be prepared, don't be surprised. A watertight shell may be a small part of the overall project cost.

I built a custom home in California in 2008/2009.

Pad compaction was an additional significant cost of the site prep. I paid to have 6' of dirt taken out and then compacted as the dirt went back in. We lost almost a foot of elevation.

The pad was supposedly "certified" but I looked at the cracks in other houses in the neighborhood and decided that I didn't trust the compaction certification. I'm glad that I didn't.

Your also going to want to run a gas line to wherever you are going to put your barbecue island and/or pool heater. (if you are going to have those things, way better to run them during site prep as opposed to later)

DL
Luke 2:14

mreid · 01-22-2017, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadog

mreid,

I think you're getting hosed on some of your costs. I've prepped hundreds of sites out in the middle of nowhere and never had costs like that. You do make a good point, in that lots of people don't think about things like that and most residential builders do a lousy job of site work. I couldn't count the number of times I've seen them grade a site after building the house.

Back to metal studs, few residential builders will have a clue about them and if you don't take advantage of their other features (running electrical in conduit, etc.) I see no point in using them for the average house. They are better suited to very contemporary designs. The issues mentioned above, like hanging a TV on a wall, are non-issues if the house is designed and built properly. There's really no difference there with a wood-framed house. Some trim is a little tougher but anything can be done if you know what you are doing.

It's impossible to generalize about costs. I could build you houses that cost $50/ft, $250/ft, or a $1000/ft. There would be differences, for sure, but they are all in the details and without getting pretty deep into those, it's a pointless question. Sort of like, "How high is up?"

If you choose wood-framing, take note that the average residential builder will use fairly crappy wood and not be too concerned with how it gets slapped together. I'm amazed how poorly many houses are framed these days. Choose your builder very carefully. Then, specify all of the details and make sure they are followed.

JR

Hey, what can I say, its New York!

We did shop around, but on a protected body of water in NY, at the end of 15 acres of heavily wooded property (think long and narrow as it runs between the lake and a ridge) where we have to build a storm water retention basin and pump sewage up a hill to the leech field, the costs are higher. I'm sure it's cheaper in GA. Anyway, my point was consider the all in costs as they add up quickly.

Kraftwerk · 01-22-2017, 08:59 PM

Any one ever read that book, House by Tracy Kidder? I always think of it when I see a nice piece of land. Not 'in the game' just thought it was a good read, with tons of info, a bit of dated perhaps.

rfuerst911sc · 01-23-2017, 12:42 AM

I plan on trying to cover as many hidden costs as I can starting today when I go look at the lots . I will try to figure out how many trees need to come down for the driveway and home . Placement on the lot to make it easiest for a basement . Leave as many trees as possible .
The realtor I am working with was a finish carpenter for many years in the area so he knows a lot of the trades . He was going to call some of his former buds to come up with a price per s.f. to build a home . That will be one data point I will shop a couple builders on my own . To be clear I will NOT purchase a piece of land without knowing roughly what it will cost to build a home . I know I can't get it to the penny but close is good enough for me .
Cleveland is aprox. 2 hours away from Marietta so I will not be the foreman for hiring out sub's as I am still working 5-6 days a week . So if I do this I will be hiring the build of the home . And my wife and I along with our realtor are continually looking at homes for sale as that is our first option . Thanks to everyone that has posted the feedback has been helpful . Go Falcons !

RKDinOKC · RKDinOKC's Garage

Nephew built a steel framed home for him and his family. It was a fairly large 2 story home but it took 4 wired wifi routers to cover the home because of the steel framing. Wifi signal would only really have any strength 1 room away from a router. Ended up with one in each corner room. 2 upstairs and 2 downstairs.

Saw another home being built I thought was cool. All of the outside walls were styrofoam forms and filled with concrete. Then it was bricked outside of that. The large master closet was 10 in thick concrete for a safe room.

stevej37 · 01-23-2017, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

My goal it to try and build a home of standard ranch style with aprox. 1800 sf for 150,000.00 . That price would be for basement and home the cost of the land would be additional . Pipe dream or possible ?

Save you some cash...borrow my book!

rfuerst911sc · 01-23-2017, 04:02 PM

Looked at 5 different lots today none were exactly what we want . The one that was closest to what we want was buried in restrictive covenants so we will continue to look .

lendaddy · 01-23-2017, 04:28 PM

FWIW, I'm dangerously close to scrapping my plans for a custom home and just buying something. I have well into five figures (not much to some I know) just into my planning, design and drawings...and my land is paid for but the market to build right now is asinine. I've had the project quoted by five builders now and it's simply stupid the prices they are getting. I can literally buy two homes of similar specs for the est costs to build.

Obviously this could be very different regionally but I would encourage you to look deep into the costs to build custom in your area first.

**buying a spec home is still realistic (price-wise) here and it contributes to the bad juju I'm getting on the whole deal. It's not elevated labor or materials costs but rather the scorching demand for new. Builders simply have no motivation to dick with a custom and deal with the headaches. The demand for cookie cutter spec homes is just too great to screw around with a custom unless you're going to bury your bone in the buyer. I don't blame them... it's just the reality right now.

I'm thinking I'll sit on the land for better timing and just buy something for now. Haven't totally made up my mind but I'm damn close.

rfuerst911sc · 01-23-2017, 04:46 PM

lendaddy I hear you loud and clear ! Our main focus still is to find an existing home to purchase as that seems to be the best bang for the buck . But we are exploring all options at the present time .

rfuerst911sc · 02-05-2017, 04:26 AM

UPDATE: On Friday I took a vacation day from work and my wife and I went to Cleveland GA. to meet with our realtor . We had six homes and two building lots to look at . Five of the six homes were crapple , the sixth was very nice but smaller than we want . We then went to look at the two building lots.
The first lot was a winner ! We fell in love with it instantly . It is 2.6 acres very nearly flat with majestic massive oak trees and magnolias on the property . Two of the oak trees must be 100 years old they are huge and appear to be healthy. Driveway already cut in literally just dig the basement, pour the floor/walls and start framing . There is a bored well already on site and county water available right in front of the property.

Went and looked at the second lot but it was nose bleed steep great for raising mountain goats

.

So back to the first land lot we went, once there the realtor and I walked almost every inch of it and finally found the surveyor pins . I will say the lot is overpriced against the " average " price around here but there are many things about this lot that will save money, like minimal to zero lot clearing and the cost of tapping into count water vs. digging a well . Also the property already has a fence around it which saves quite a bit of money .

My wife and I decided to make an offer so our realtor got on the phone with the listing realtor. Our offer was rejected ( basically a low ball offer ) but the selling realtor came back with a counter offer that was only 2k more than we offered !
So for now we have a " verbal " agreement to purchase the land for the counter offer price. Nothing official so it could be sold tomorrow to someone else if they have the money . My wife and I have to make sure we can build a home within our budget before pulling the trigger . Sent a home plan that we found on the net to our realtor he has " builder buddies " so we are going to get some pricing . We are just looking for a " close " baseline price , we know there are MANY variables and we can save money by doing some things ourselves . Exciting times for us at the moment !

billybek · billybek's Garage

Cool!
Hope the sale goes through without a hitch.

berettafan · 02-05-2017, 05:16 AM

this should be fun to watch. there is surely more than one way to build a home and it's fun when people don't just follow the herd.

re wifi if I were building a home there would be no wifi-everything would be hard wired.

mreid · 02-05-2017, 06:31 AM

Very exciting! I hope it all comes through and works out for you.

SpyderMike · 02-05-2017, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKDinOKC

Saw another home being built I thought was cool. All of the outside walls were styrofoam forms and filled with concrete. Then it was bricked outside of that. The large master closet was 10 in thick concrete for a safe room.

We have friends with a similar home in Oregon...it is referredred to as ICF construction (insulated concrete form). The house is solid, quiet and well insulated. It went together fast too.

dad911 · 02-05-2017, 06:51 AM

Talk to a fire official about steel before you decide to go that way. I am a builder, have friends and contractors that are fire officials. The steel twists and fails, it takes hours for 3" or 5" beam to burn through.

Neighbors fire, the steel beams in the basement expanded enough to push out the foundation walls.

I don't know about your area, but the prices you quoted for materials could get a wood frame up and weatherproofed, including labor.

And the trades will likely add on considerably the additional and unexpected labor.

As you are considering a Ranch, have you looked at Modulars?

rfuerst911sc · 02-05-2017, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berettafan

this should be fun to watch. there is surely more than one way to build a home and it's fun when people don't just follow the herd.

re wifi if I were building a home there would be no wifi-everything would be hard wired.

Haha not sure I can even get internet on this property ! Windstream is the internet provider ( very loose term) in Cleveland and EVERYONE I have talked to says they suck ! One thing I forgot to do when I was at the property was to see if there is cellphone coverage . Will check that the next time we go up there .

rfuerst911sc · 02-05-2017, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad911

Talk to a fire official about steel before you decide to go that way. I am a builder, have friends and contractors that are fire officials. The steel twists and fails, it takes hours for 3" or 5" beam to burn through.

Neighbors fire, the steel beams in the basement expanded enough to push out the foundation walls.

I don't know about your area, but the prices you quoted for materials could get a wood frame up and weatherproofed, including labor.

And the trades will likely add on considerably the additional and unexpected labor.

As you are considering a Ranch, have you looked at Modulars?

yes a simple one story ranch home is what we want to build . a three bedroom two bath with an attached two car garage all on one level . and basement just under the living space . then a two car detached man cave garage with a lift and hvac .
the covenants in this property do not allow mobile homes or modulars . i am pretty sure we will just go conventional stick built . might do d siding to make it look more country and probably a metal roof . all speculation at this point.

Crowbob · 02-05-2017, 10:38 AM

Cost-wise, I'd buy a garage kit with attic trusses. Rough plumb it on a concrete slab (with a drain).

Boom. Living quarters.

rfuerst911sc · 02-05-2017, 11:24 AM

Crowbob that suggestion works great for me.........the wife not so much . Plus per the very few covenants this property has is the home must be 1800 s.f. heated and that does not include the basement . So a home we shall build assuming we move forward with the land purchase .

javadog · 02-05-2017, 11:52 AM

If you build a house with a basement on a flat lot, ponder how you will keep the area surrounding the basement walls dry.

At the very least, you'll want to site the house on an elevation that gives you good, positive drainage away from the house in all directions. You'll also want to consider what type of soil you have.

JR