home builder question
 

My wife and I are considering building a retirement house. As I search the net for info on building I have come across some local sites that are about building steel framed homes . As an example there are " kits " for an 1800 s.f. home for aprox. $45,000.00 . There are lots of details I don't understand yet but just curious what the forum thinks of steel houses ?
This coming Monday I am going to visit one of the local sellers and try to get smarter on these . I can see some advantages to this type of framing but don't fully understand it yet. My goal it to try and build a home of standard ranch style with aprox. 1800 sf for 150,000.00 . That price would be for basement and home the cost of the land would be additional . Pipe dream or possible ?

Possible.

Cost-wise, your best bet is to make a deal with a contractor to build a house only to the degree that you can assume final occupancy. Unfinished basement, cheapest trimwork and detailing, no landscaping etc., then do the rest yourself over time.

Simplicity-wise, your best bet is to do a turn-key arrangement as in, tell me when it's done and I'll turn the key and move in.

Simplicity and cost are pretty much mutually exclusive.

There are a number of pre manufactured homes out there. If you decide to go this route make sure you shop around.

regardless of what you decide - plan on it taking 2x as long as planned to build or remodel and a minimum of 2 -3x what you have budgeted.... it's a slippery slope when you build.

I should have stated I am an avid DIYer so there would be some things I would do myself. The basement as an example I would frame/finish it myself . I just need it to be water tight and rough plumbed . I can install flooring , cabinets and plumbing fixtures . I am looking at some land on Monday and if/when I find some then I will sit down with a few builders and see if we can get there .
And we haven't talked about a man cave either , would need two bays specifically just for me . I'm thinking four bay garage as part of the house , two bays closest to the house would be used for daily drivers and ease of home entry the other two bays would be gearhead specific . All just thoughts and talk but would like to see it come together .

From what I've seen, the price you cite is for a steel frame only--no labor to assemble, no coverings--interior or exterior--no foundation, etc. I guess what you are really asking is, is it worthwhile to use steel framing rather than wood? If so, your plan to talk to a local seller is a good one, as long as you compare only their product, steel framing, with wood framing, and don't forget to include a discussion about costs of labor to erect each type of frame. Additionally, there are costs in running electrical wiring and plumbing through steel as special grommets are used.

It might be better if you talked to a few contractors who have built both types of frame houses. All things being equal, you want to know if the steel frame has advantages you want that offset any additional costs.

ossi you are correct I really am asking cost of steel framing vs. conventional . And then the costs of the finished house steel vs. conventional .

While steel framing for residential applications is becoming more vogue, the labor and materials cost is still more than wood. So, unless you are going to build in a miserably termite infested area, wood would most likely be the way to go. Even though I built a 3,700 sq ft home about 11 years ago for about $75/ft, I doubt I could do that, now. I did quite a bit of the work, myself, while subbing out concrete, framing, rough plumbing and electrical, HVAC, roofing, stucco, a portion of drywall, and cabinets. With that being said, it took me exactly a year to build the house, and when I looked back, the extra interest cost paid to the bank since it took me so long to finish the house was probably a break even if I would have just paid somebody else to do the labor. Since you are a DIY'er, I doubt you would have a hard time subbing the major trades out and getting the house done in a professional and timely manner. Its just a matter of finding good subs and being on site every day to make sure things are progressing. You will make some scheduling mistakes, but with good communication with your subs, you will minimize that. However, there is always a little slippage with the learning process.

Most likely, you can find house plans on the internet that will cost you about $1000-$1,500. However, those are national plans and you will have to turn the plans into plans accepted by the municipality in which you will be building. You will most likely need a soils report, and most probably a structural engineer. You may also need a local architect, as well. The engineer and architect may cost you another $5-7k.

Good luck!

rfuerst911sc,
My wife and I attended a Home & Remodeling Show in Huntsville, AL two years ago. At this particular show, we met with an owner that built Insulated Concrete Form (ICF) homes. He was in process of starting to experiment with using steel framing on some of the interior walls. The manufacturer that he was dealing with is from your area, Marietta, GA. The name of the steel supplier is Metal Benderz LLC. We also meet with these folks and the cost of steel framing versus standard wood was almost the same (steel was slightly higher by about 4% - material and labor)

Fast forward one year... the ICF builder was building a new home that the floor joists and interior walks were all of steel. I visited this worksite several times and the was quite impressed with the sturdiness offered by by the steel. We opted not to go with an a ICF hone ONLY because no builders in our new area had any experience with this type of home building. The price then had dropped and it was slightly less to use steel rather than wood. This was based on the home's entire structure (both exterior and interior walls) using steel. It has a very quick learning curve and the interior and exterior wall treatments down easily and securely be affixed the these steel wall and floors.

See if you can arrange a visit to Metal Benderz LLC and see their operation and ask a plethora of questions. Also, talk to some builders that have used the metal studs to get their opinions.

Fireant the Metal Benders website is one I will look into . There also is a company outside of Cleveland GA. that manufactures steel roofing , siding and home structures . We are trying to move to Cleveland so they would be local and hopefully that would equal money savings . Right now I am not ruling out anything and just doing research . But I am not going to pull the trigger on buying land until I know roughly what the home will cost to build .

https://www.bluhomes.com/visit-us
there are several companies like this one (which is freaking expensive) doing pre-fabrication. Check out Dwell Magazine for more

https://www.dwell.com/collection/prefabs-in-the-middle-of-nowhere-35b30fcb
some prefab houses

Most residential contractors will not be able to finish a steel frame efficiently, due to lack of experience. If you go that route, maybe find a contractor that specializes in commercial construction.

Something that you may want to consider. If you build a steel framed home, then you buy a big screen TV and want to hang it on the wall. But the thing is huge, and you need to "mount it on studs". I'm not sure you'll be able to do that, or at least, not easily with a steel frame. Maybe there is an alternative, but a buddy lived in a high rise apt and couldn't wall mount his TV because they didn't have any wooden studs that he could mount to. I would assume that other things may pop up from time to time that were similar.

What Crowbob said is the safer way to go, the builders in your area would be able to give you a price close to what it will really cost to build, they already have trades that they deal with so they will have approx prices for there work, and know the local codes. The price they get will probably be less then if you hire the same people. Also they should have the insurance coverage if someone gets hurt. Once the structure is up and roof on you would have a easier time to complete on your own.

I am getting close to finishing a ICF build, have been at it for almost three years, myself and two helpers did the ICF blocks, 30,000 lbs of rebar in the walls. We are not in the house yet.

Pretty much given up on finding trades it took months to get someone to quote roof and siding, jobs that I did not want to consider doing on my own, but almost everything else I have done including ducting, electrical and plumbing and interior framing, just working on the drywall now, I would not recommend this to anyone.

Why do people think that? The good or custom builders do not take on lots of projects so they can have some breathing time to finish up the house. One more tip is to make sure to have this on your contract:

The actual Cost of the Work shall constitute the Guaranteed Maximum Price of xxx THOUSAND xxx DOLLARS AND NO CENTS.

$ xxxxx.000

In the event the Contractor shall produce the work in excess of the Guaranteed Maximum Price, the Contractor shall pay 100% of the excess out of his own funds.

Any additional work requested by the Owner outside the scope of this Agreement shall be evidenced in writing and signed by both parties. Such work shall be charged to the Owner on the basis of the actual Cost of the Work, plus $75 per hour Supervision Charge, if necessary, and the 20% Contractor’s Fee on the total. Completion time shall be extended accordingly.

The last part or as they say, the ball is in your court.

One thing to keep in mind is to be able to control your subs. The subs know you are a one time deal and will never call them again unless they know you are building three more homes in the next two months. You may very well be in their back burner, so getting them to give you bids and showing up to meet dead lines may present a challenge. I know that my subs dislike working for home owners. They feel its too much hassle having to answer too many questions (that's my job) and are constantly asking for advice on their trade or others. TAlking do not make them money. That's just the way it is, tough business.

As far as steel framing is concern, I see not issue with it. Walls are true and lack of expansion and contraction is always a plus. Aint no more creaky creaky. As someone mentioned earlier, most residential builders are set up for steel framing.

You will have to find a hungry contractor that will only take on the foundation, framing, roofing and closing up the building for you only because their name is on the permit and are responsible for the final project. Personally, I would let you muck (no offense) it up and still be responsible for the finish product with my name on the building permit. Lots to think about.

Sent you a PM...I can help with local knowledge on anyone in the Cleveland area that you may consider.

Slightly off topic, but important. My wife and I are building a summer home on a lake in NY. You won't have the NY related issues we are having: protecting the lake from runoff, protecting any trees over 8" in diameter, 100' setback from any wetlands, local approval (neighbors) of home plan, and the latest ensuring the long eared bat is not nesting in the area.

Site preparation on raw land can be very expensive. Ours is wooded and perched between a mountain and the lake. We do not have any utilities other than electric and internet/cable at the entrance. Between the well ($8-10k), septic ($12-20k), driveway (1/4 mile, $30k), clearing and grading ($7-10k/acre), electricity ($10/foot), permits, surveying ($5-20k) and other costs you would be surprised how quickly site prep adds up. Spend some time analyzing the entire cost if you haven't already. Be prepared, don't be surprised. A watertight shell may be a small part of the overall project cost.

mreid,

I think you're getting hosed on some of your costs. I've prepped hundreds of sites out in the middle of nowhere and never had costs like that. You do make a good point, in that lots of people don't think about things like that and most residential builders do a lousy job of site work. I couldn't count the number of times I've seen them grade a site after building the house.

Back to metal studs, few residential builders will have a clue about them and if you don't take advantage of their other features (running electrical in conduit, etc.) I see no point in using them for the average house. They are better suited to very contemporary designs. The issues mentioned above, like hanging a TV on a wall, are non-issues if the house is designed and built properly. There's really no difference there with a wood-framed house. Some trim is a little tougher but anything can be done if you know what you are doing.

It's impossible to generalize about costs. I could build you houses that cost $50/ft, $250/ft, or a $1000/ft. There would be differences, for sure, but they are all in the details and without getting pretty deep into those, it's a pointless question. Sort of like, "How high is up?"

If you choose wood-framing, take note that the average residential builder will use fairly crappy wood and not be too concerned with how it gets slapped together. I'm amazed how poorly many houses are framed these days. Choose your builder very carefully. Then, specify all of the details and make sure they are followed.

JR

I built a custom home in California in 2008/2009.

Pad compaction was an additional significant cost of the site prep. I paid to have 6' of dirt taken out and then compacted as the dirt went back in. We lost almost a foot of elevation.

The pad was supposedly "certified" but I looked at the cracks in other houses in the neighborhood and decided that I didn't trust the compaction certification. I'm glad that I didn't.

Your also going to want to run a gas line to wherever you are going to put your barbecue island and/or pool heater. (if you are going to have those things, way better to run them during site prep as opposed to later)

DL
Luke 2:14

Hey, what can I say, its New York!

We did shop around, but on a protected body of water in NY, at the end of 15 acres of heavily wooded property (think long and narrow as it runs between the lake and a ridge) where we have to build a storm water retention basin and pump sewage up a hill to the leech field, the costs are higher. I'm sure it's cheaper in GA. Anyway, my point was consider the all in costs as they add up quickly.

Any one ever read that book, House by Tracy Kidder? I always think of it when I see a nice piece of land. Not 'in the game' just thought it was a good read, with tons of info, a bit of dated perhaps.

I plan on trying to cover as many hidden costs as I can starting today when I go look at the lots . I will try to figure out how many trees need to come down for the driveway and home . Placement on the lot to make it easiest for a basement . Leave as many trees as possible .
The realtor I am working with was a finish carpenter for many years in the area so he knows a lot of the trades . He was going to call some of his former buds to come up with a price per s.f. to build a home . That will be one data point I will shop a couple builders on my own . To be clear I will NOT purchase a piece of land without knowing roughly what it will cost to build a home . I know I can't get it to the penny but close is good enough for me .
Cleveland is aprox. 2 hours away from Marietta so I will not be the foreman for hiring out sub's as I am still working 5-6 days a week . So if I do this I will be hiring the build of the home . And my wife and I along with our realtor are continually looking at homes for sale as that is our first option . Thanks to everyone that has posted the feedback has been helpful . Go Falcons !

Nephew built a steel framed home for him and his family. It was a fairly large 2 story home but it took 4 wired wifi routers to cover the home because of the steel framing. Wifi signal would only really have any strength 1 room away from a router. Ended up with one in each corner room. 2 upstairs and 2 downstairs.

Saw another home being built I thought was cool. All of the outside walls were styrofoam forms and filled with concrete. Then it was bricked outside of that. The large master closet was 10 in thick concrete for a safe room.

Save you some cash...borrow my book! :)



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1485178289.jpg

Looked at 5 different lots today none were exactly what we want . The one that was closest to what we want was buried in restrictive covenants so we will continue to look .

FWIW, I'm dangerously close to scrapping my plans for a custom home and just buying something. I have well into five figures (not much to some I know) just into my planning, design and drawings...and my land is paid for but the market to build right now is asinine. I've had the project quoted by five builders now and it's simply stupid the prices they are getting. I can literally buy two homes of similar specs for the est costs to build.

Obviously this could be very different regionally but I would encourage you to look deep into the costs to build custom in your area first.

**buying a spec home is still realistic (price-wise) here and it contributes to the bad juju I'm getting on the whole deal. It's not elevated labor or materials costs but rather the scorching demand for new. Builders simply have no motivation to dick with a custom and deal with the headaches. The demand for cookie cutter spec homes is just too great to screw around with a custom unless you're going to bury your bone in the buyer. I don't blame them... it's just the reality right now.

I'm thinking I'll sit on the land for better timing and just buy something for now. Haven't totally made up my mind but I'm damn close.

lendaddy I hear you loud and clear ! Our main focus still is to find an existing home to purchase as that seems to be the best bang for the buck . But we are exploring all options at the present time .

UPDATE: On Friday I took a vacation day from work and my wife and I went to Cleveland GA. to meet with our realtor . We had six homes and two building lots to look at . Five of the six homes were crapple , the sixth was very nice but smaller than we want . We then went to look at the two building lots.
The first lot was a winner ! We fell in love with it instantly . It is 2.6 acres very nearly flat with majestic massive oak trees and magnolias on the property . Two of the oak trees must be 100 years old they are huge and appear to be healthy. Driveway already cut in literally just dig the basement, pour the floor/walls and start framing . There is a bored well already on site and county water available right in front of the property.

Went and looked at the second lot but it was nose bleed steep great for raising mountain goats :D.

So back to the first land lot we went, once there the realtor and I walked almost every inch of it and finally found the surveyor pins . I will say the lot is overpriced against the " average " price around here but there are many things about this lot that will save money, like minimal to zero lot clearing and the cost of tapping into count water vs. digging a well . Also the property already has a fence around it which saves quite a bit of money .

My wife and I decided to make an offer so our realtor got on the phone with the listing realtor. Our offer was rejected ( basically a low ball offer ) but the selling realtor came back with a counter offer that was only 2k more than we offered !
So for now we have a " verbal " agreement to purchase the land for the counter offer price. Nothing official so it could be sold tomorrow to someone else if they have the money . My wife and I have to make sure we can build a home within our budget before pulling the trigger . Sent a home plan that we found on the net to our realtor he has " builder buddies " so we are going to get some pricing . We are just looking for a " close " baseline price , we know there are MANY variables and we can save money by doing some things ourselves . Exciting times for us at the moment ! SmileWavy

Cool!
Hope the sale goes through without a hitch.

this should be fun to watch. there is surely more than one way to build a home and it's fun when people don't just follow the herd.

re wifi if I were building a home there would be no wifi-everything would be hard wired.

Very exciting! I hope it all comes through and works out for you.

We have friends with a similar home in Oregon...it is referredred to as ICF construction (insulated concrete form). The house is solid, quiet and well insulated. It went together fast too.

Talk to a fire official about steel before you decide to go that way. I am a builder, have friends and contractors that are fire officials. The steel twists and fails, it takes hours for 3" or 5" beam to burn through.

Neighbors fire, the steel beams in the basement expanded enough to push out the foundation walls.

I don't know about your area, but the prices you quoted for materials could get a wood frame up and weatherproofed, including labor.

And the trades will likely add on considerably the additional and unexpected labor.

As you are considering a Ranch, have you looked at Modulars?

Haha not sure I can even get internet on this property ! Windstream is the internet provider ( very loose term) in Cleveland and EVERYONE I have talked to says they suck ! One thing I forgot to do when I was at the property was to see if there is cellphone coverage . Will check that the next time we go up there .

yes a simple one story ranch home is what we want to build . a three bedroom two bath with an attached two car garage all on one level . and basement just under the living space . then a two car detached man cave garage with a lift and hvac .
the covenants in this property do not allow mobile homes or modulars . i am pretty sure we will just go conventional stick built . might do d siding to make it look more country and probably a metal roof . all speculation at this point.

Cost-wise, I'd buy a garage kit with attic trusses. Rough plumb it on a concrete slab (with a drain).

Boom. Living quarters.

Crowbob that suggestion works great for me.........the wife not so much . Plus per the very few covenants this property has is the home must be 1800 s.f. heated and that does not include the basement . So a home we shall build assuming we move forward with the land purchase .

If you build a house with a basement on a flat lot, ponder how you will keep the area surrounding the basement walls dry.

At the very least, you'll want to site the house on an elevation that gives you good, positive drainage away from the house in all directions. You'll also want to consider what type of soil you have.

JR