Cheap, off-brand gasoline is bad for engines

[motion]

Ruh Roh

Cheap, off-brand gasoline is bad for engines, AAA says - Jul. 8, 2016

[sammyg2]

TOP TIER™ Licensed Retail Brands

76
Aloha
Amoco Ultimate with Invigorate
ARCO
Beacon
BP Regular with Invigorate
BP Silver with Invigorate
Break Time
Cenex
Chevron
CITGO
Conoco
Co-op
Costco Gasoline
CountryMark
CountryMark Plus
Diamond Shamrock
Esso
Express
Exxon
Hele
Holiday
Kwik Star
Kwik Trip
Kwik Trip Express
Mahalo
MFA
Mobil
Ohana Fuels
Petro-Canada
Phillips 66
PUMA Maxxima
QT
QuikTrip
Road Ranger
Shamrock
Shell
Shell (Puerto Rico)
Sinclair
Standard
SuperAmerica
SuperFuels
Tempo
Texaco
Tri-Par Qwik Stop
Valero

[Bob Kontak]

As noted, the fuel may not have the detergents.

What I don't know is can an el-cheapo gas station (layman talking) order up 3,000 gallons of naked, yet fungible gasoline and sell it when they dropped the coin 18 months ago for gas with goodies?

Margin? Is cheap gas better when prices are high?

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by motion

Ruh Roh

Cheap, off-brand gasoline is bad for engines, AAA says - Jul. 8, 2016

The off-brand gasolines can cause "19 times more engine deposits" than recognizable brands, which have more detergent in their mix.

Yep, and those additives can make noticeable differences.

At least that's been my experience.

Gas Quality question

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by motion

Ruh Roh

Cheap, off-brand gasoline is bad for engines, AAA says - Jul. 8, 2016

about a capful of techron every week will do pretty much the same as any available detergent package

Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus, 10 oz
Walmart #: 001031562
Rollback
$4.94

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

about a capful of techron every week will do pretty much the same as any available detergent package

Not pushing back but how do you know this? "Seems" like a very tiny amount.

[Tobra]

That is sort of what he does, as I recall, is how he knows. They put in additives on site at the top tier ones, they don't at the off brands.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Tobra

That is sort of what he does, as I recall, is how he knows. They put in additives on site at the top tier ones, they don't at the off brands.

Sammy? OK. I know he is savvy with oil industry info.

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by pcardude

Where do you guys think no name gas stations buy their gas from? This topic is like a religion to be discussed over on PARF. You can open your own gas station call up your local distributor and get the same gas in the same delivery truck as every other gas station in town.

Stop falling for the marketing guys.

This^^^. It's all the same stuff.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by pcardude

You can open your own gas station call up your local distributor and get the same gas in the same delivery truck as every other gas station in town.

Stop falling for the marketing guys.

I don't believe this. You can buy it if you pay for the detergents. Maybe not the Exxon mix or the BP mix of additives, but there is surely a decision point to add or to not add detergents.

This is not big news.

Oh, it's marketing. But no detergents is different than detergents.

I can wash my hair with hand soap and it's way better than water.

[intakexhaust]

C'mon now. No doubt theres a miniscule difference between some suppliers but its no big deal.

I also laugh at those owners manual's, almost all stating you must use high better quality and octane as well.

Every late model gas powered car engine sensors and management adjust for fuel grade so go ahead with lower octane. If the concerns are of low 'quality' and worried about build-up of deposits, occasionally drive the vehicle at highway speeds but in a lower gear. Let it rev and long as its under load.

[intakexhaust]

The only nuisance is for Chicago's requirement for re-formulated gas at the refinery based on season. Nothing to do with quality. Seem's like bs and another profit center. Very noticeable immediately when the transition happens. Perhaps one of our resident experts can pipe in on it.

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/special/pdf/rfg2.pdf

crack heads-
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/March-2012/Why-Gas-Is-So-Expensive-During-the-Summer-And-Especially-in-Chicago/

>>> In 2001, John Cook, then the head of the petroleum division of the Department of Energy, called Chicago/Milwaukee an “island,” along with California; you may recall that, over the years, Chicago often competes with different California cities for some of the nation’s highest gas prices:

The result of this targeted approach to air quality has been to create gasoline market islands. The primary examples are California and the Chicago/Milwaukee areas, in which the required gasolines are unique, and only a limited number of refineries make the products. The inventories of gasoline used in these regions can be drawn down rapidly in response to unusually high demand or a supply problem at one of the few refineries producing the specialized products, or in one of the pipelines delivering the products. Prices for gasoline in these regions then surge. If other gasoline markets are not tight, the prices surges may be limited to the specialized gasoline regions, as we have seen historically in the case of California.

Virtually all of the Chicagoland area is a reformulated gas area. And though ethanol is currently cheaper than gas, it does interact with the price of gas in complex ways, arguably driving its price up: it can’t currently be transported by pipeline, adding infrastructure costs, and it evaporates easily, meaning that to get under psi regulations it reduces the flexibility of using cheaper blending ingredients. <<<

[LakeCleElum]

A friend of mine used to drive tanker truck and later worked in the office at the plant where the trucks got their loads. The pipeline to the plant came straight from refineries which obtained crude via the pipeline from alaska.

My buddy would deliver to all sorts of brands of stations from the same tanker truck. I asked him about brands that advertised additives like techron, etc.....He said he had little bags of powder chemicals....He was instructed to climb up atop the tanker and drop a packet in: IF HE REMEMBERED.......He claimed it was mostly HYPE

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

Very noticeable immediately when the transition happens. Perhaps one of our resident experts can pipe in on it.

No expert but I was a (an?) RFG auditor for big oil for several years sending attestations to the EPA periodically for my employer.

Summer has a a different reid vapor pressure which reduces volatility, i.e., less vapor escapes from the fill pipe. Winter gas has more vapor and is offset by the lower temps. Reid vapor pressure is simply the test they perform in a lab that provides a metric.

I betcha the winter gas is what you found to be more fun.

You buy RFG all year. You buy a different RVP summer vs winter. I don't know what makes winter gas more bouncy.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

C'mon now. No doubt theres a miniscule difference between some suppliers but its no big deal.

Agree.

[Jeff Higgins]

A guy that I've known for 30 years just retired from the refinery up in Anacortes, WA. He tells me all the trucks get filled from the same gas tanks. The difference, he says, is when they leave the refinery. On their way out they make a second stop at their respective companies' additive station, where they pump in whatever "secret mix" that company uses. The trucks going to the generic stations and the ARCO stations get no additives. This is from a guy that actually filled these trucks, so take it for what it's worth. Maybe a different process at different refineries, but this is how he did it his entire career.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by pcardude

Where do you guys think no name gas stations buy their gas from? This topic is like a religion to be discussed over on PARF. You can open your own gas station call up your local distributor and get the same gas in the same delivery truck as every other gas station in town.

Stop falling for the marketing guys.

If I were a no-name distributor I could order gas WITHOUT additives (illegal) or get it with the minimum amount of cheapest additives, saving the licencing fees. Then sell it to whoever.
it would be the same gas but not as good because no additives.

the ratio of detergent to gasoline is typically around a third to a half of a gallon of additive to every 1,000 gallons of gasoline (Blumberg).

Here is a good, fairly unbiased research document on the subject (If you can believe anyone from Cleveland ..):

http://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=tdr

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

about a capful of techron every week will do pretty much the same as any available detergent package

I have used this stuff for several years.

[jcommin]

Gasoline in Europe has a higher octane rating than in the USA. Actually there has been a push by the automakers to use the higher octane with their engines, especially with the newer ones. There is a big push back in the USA because we are use to cheap gas prices ( I believe the cost in Europe is 4x that of the USA).

[Neilk]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

about a capful of techron every week will do pretty much the same as any available detergent package

Does Techron go bad? I have a couple of sealed bottles that must be 5 years old. "Found" them when I moved out of our old house.