Mid 90's Toyota Celica All-Trac Turbo???

[lendaddy]

Yep, I'm still looking for a winter commuter and am officially to the point where it's not fun anymore. I've narrowed it down to Mazdaspeed6 GT, Audi TT coupe, Subaru Legacy GT or WRX if I could find a good deal on one.

And then I ran across a vehicle that seems to really fit my criteria:


Less than $10k
> 20mpg, hoping for 24+
Turbo charged 4
Manual Tranny
Somewhat Unique
4 seats (rears can be tiny)

Anyway, Toyota apparently made a Celica in the 90's that was turbo, 4wd. Who knew?

Problem is they seem quite rare. I would buy this car in a heartbeat if I could find one. Anyone have a line on one?

[AFC-911]

I've been told by Toyota specialists that the All Trac is harder to work on than an MR2 Turbo with the same engine.

I wish you luck if you take the plunge.

[BReif61]

I am fairly certain that they never sold that generation of All-Trac in the US. The previous model (with the pop-up lights) was sold here, however.

[manbridge 74]

I own a 93. Completely stock. Got married in it.

I had a 90 also that I hammered on from 77K - 140K miles.

Aside from regular maintenance only issue was a couple of wheel bearings and rear diff bushing.

Excellent under stressed well engineered platform. I could sell the 93 for what I paid for it 12 years ago.

Cons:
Heavy, close to a 1000lbs more than my 74 911. A lot of weight is biased to the front. A stiffer rear bar really helps to liven up the handling. A GT type car more than sports car. Incredibly hard to find one that hasn't been hacked up by mod crazy internet cowboys.

[Heel n Toe]

lendaddy, I haven't driven a whole lot of miles in snow and ice, but I would certainly think that having a turbocharger would be a distinct advantage, so if I were you, I would definitely keep looking until I found one of those.

[Maxim S]

The one in the picture, the ST205, was never sold in the US. (Or North America, as far as I'm aware.)

As mentioned, the previous ST185 was, and they're decently cool cars, but neither as fast as you'd hope or particularly easy to find in decent condition.

It might be a longshot, but have you considered a first-gen Impreza with a JDM motor swap? They're awesome cars, especially the late-90s ones, and tons of people put the foreign-market WRX and STi motors in. You might be able to find one already swapped, or you could do it yourself. Four-doors are generally cheaper than two-doors, and you could think about a wagon or even an Outback, which is the same car with a slight lift to the suspension and some plastic junk on it. I used to have a friend with a stock-looking Outback with a 280HP JDM STi motor in it, the thing was a total beast. These days there are probably also tons of US WRX and STi motors to swap in, now that I think about it, as well.

[manbridge 74]

Other considerations.

-ST165,185,205 all have a cast iron rear diff protected in a separate subframe. Some have torsen LSD. You can't tell any other way unless you look through the fill hole using a mirror. Subies have an exposed aluminum diff. Not a big deal, but Toyota is better for gravel pounding.

They are really strong in the lower end. The ct26 turbo is primitive and inefficient once you start upping boost. Stick a new modern turbo on there and with proper fueling the car is transformed. Redline is 7300 but OE cars just make more noise than power above 5500rpm.

They will run in open loop above 80 mph or so. You can tell by the drop in mileage. I get 27mpg on highway and 20 in town with a medium foot.

The EFI is ancient but dead reliable L-Jetronic flapper door type. They run pig rich to save engine when under boost.

Top mount intercooler is small and basically acts like an interheater if you see a lot of stop and go summer.

AWD can eat up tires more. Some of this is due to conservative alignment settings and can be dialed out.

Center diff is viscous and can handle twice the output of comparable diamond star units of that era.

Gearbox had revision in 92 to triple and dual cone synchros to improve balkier shifting. 92 is also when factory shortened shift throw.

Non sunroof models are desired and rare. It is a lot of weight up high.

Finding original optional floor mats is nigh on impossible.

ABS is old design, easily fooled by gravel roads. I liked my 90 that didn't have it.

Rust was an issue on 89 and previous as the galvanizing was not very good.

St205 had multi link suspension which seems to get loose and clunky with time. Basic strut type is durable on other models.

Most every other part is standard Japanese parts bin stuff.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Less than $10k
> 20mpg, hoping for 24+
Turbo charged 4
Manual Tranny
Somewhat Unique
4 seats (rears can be tiny)

Brainstorming:

1992-1995.5 Audi ur-S4/s6 with the 20v 5 cylinder turbo **would be my pick**

1990-1991 Audi Coupe Quattro 20v (non turbo, but it's a popular conversion)

I know you had bad luck with modern complex Audis (B5 S4 or A6 2.7T) but the 5 cylinder era was more robust

1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR4

1990-1994 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX Turbo AWD
1990-1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
1990-1994 Eagle Talson TSI Turbo AWD

1995-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX Turbo AWD (just newer gen, they made a few Eagles too)

1990-1999 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 (V6 twin turbo)
1991-1996 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo (same car)

Volvo S40 or S60 (I've seen S60 R's in your price range)

Jaguar X-Type (they made them with manual transmission, just not turbo)

BMW 3 series AWD from the 1991 325iX to modern day -- no turbo though

1988-1989 Mazda GTX little hot hatch turbo AWD 5 spd

Lots of Subarus meet your criteria

[Eric 951]

When I was in HS, my GF's older sister had a brand-new wicked black 88 All-Trac Turbo. She used to let me drive it on occasion and that thing would boogie. I remember smoking a new F-Body IROC. When we got to a light further down the roadway, the driveer looked at me and shook his head with a "WTF just happened" look on his face, totally suprised that he got beat by a lowly "celica". It was definatley a cool sleeper.

[manbridge 74]

More: (Can you tell I like em yet?)

Alltracs have a non-interference design engine. Timing belt breaks and at the worst you are out a tow and possibly a timing cover. T-belt breaks on an Mitsu, Subie, and Audi(IIRC) you are out a lot of money. This is especially import if your second car is a commuter/beater as they usually are neglected come maintenance time. The idler pulleys are of a more robust design as well.

3SGTE engine is canted back at about 60 degrees for lower hood line and supposed handling advantage. Owners get wild quotes to repair oil leaks when all they need is a new valve cover gasket to stop oil dripping down from rear of cover. PS high pressure hose is another leak area that is easily fixed.

When boost is raised a lot, #3 cyl can run lean due to center feed intake manifold. This will cause the cast piston's top ring land to break due to detonation.

The cast iron downpipe from turbo has a cat converter inside and is one area where exhaust flow can be improved due to stagnation. They are often clogged due to neglected maintenance as well.

The EFI is such that they will pass smog w/o converters if you are not in Cali and everything else is up to snuff.

Alltrac forum is small and populated mostly by yahoos though there is a lot of archived learning to be had. The real action is on MR2OC especially concerning the engine.

[johnsjmc]

I,ve had 2 AWD Celicas both 89s. I used both as winter beaters while my 911 was stored. Bodies are prone to rust like many Japanese cars. The awd cars are assembled in Japan not a US plant, which may or may not make any difference. .Very reliable and fairly quick , but not supercars.
Only repair was a new clutch in both . You need to remove the engine and trans to do that and it would be expensive labourwise, if I didn,t do it myself. (parts are cheap) With a new clutch I sold both after 2 years for more than I paid for them.
My brother had an eagle talon AWD and I would look at them as similar good choices for winter beaters today.

[manbridge 74]

^^The clutch is a bear. Make sure the road test includes a clutch stall test. 1990 brought much improved clutch and trans.

Also 88-89s have a tendency to develop cracks on exhaust side of turbo.

It seems all toyotas had a lot more rust resistance after 1989.

[johnsjmc]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

^^The clutch is a bear. Make sure the road test includes a clutch stall test. 1990 brought much improved clutch and trans.

Also 88-89s have a tendency to develop cracks on exhaust side of turbo.

It seems all toyotas had a lot more rust resistance after 1989.

I bought both needing a clutch. Paid less than $2000 each and that was 10 years ago. If I remember the clutch was under $200 .
I sold one for $3500 and the other with a few more miles and a poorer body for something like $2500 after 2 years winter only driving

[manbridge 74]

Well done.

[johnsjmc]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

Well done.

But Yes the clutch is a bear. I worked as a High School auto shop teacher so I used my almost limitless supply of free inexperienced labour for both clutch jobs,

[kaisen]

1990 Celica AllTrac

Most of them are rusty, riced, and beat

Look long and hard enough and you may find one worth buying

[manbridge 74]

Looks like my old car. Mine was fading to pink from Colorado sun when I sold it. My first and last time with a red car.

Once on a closed course (don't we all say that?) my 90 clocked a probably optimistic 144 mph. Felt pretty stable though that hood scoop catches a lot of wind.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by johnsjmc

But Yes the clutch is a bear. I worked as a High School auto shop teacher so I used my almost limitless supply of free inexperienced labour for both clutch jobs,

Funny.

[BReif61]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Brainstorming:


1990-1994 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX Turbo AWD
1990-1994 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
1990-1994 Eagle Talson TSI Turbo AWD

I can speak from experience that these cars are GREAT fun in the white stuff.

[Robert Adams]

Had a 88 alltrac back in the day and was the 2nd most expensive car I ever encountered to maintain. It was awesome to drive on the twisties especially with the sunroof open. Leather seats were real comfortable and the stick was smooth. But I shared ownership with my mechanic. There was just something always going wrong with it. Sold it to a guy I met in a parking lot while the wife was shopping and promptly bought an all white turbo sports roof Supra..much better experience all the way around!
What was my #1 worst car to maintain you may ask, well, an 82 Lanica Zagato black and gold edition. Some how I managed to sell both for more than I paid for them. My 2cents worth, skip the 2nd gen Alltracs; they are a rare car to find period, let a lone one in good shape.
Having driven both a Subaru Legacy GT and WRX I would say either is a good choice, depends on how much room you want.