Home owners insurance

[afterburn 549]

OhhHhhhhh just for get it

[Crowbob]

I just paid to remove a tree and grind the 40" stump for zakly this reason.

[pwd72s]

On the other side of the coin, when we had an oil furnace malfunction & catch fire, State Farm ponied right up.

[Evans, Marv]

Don't get me started on home owner's insurance. I live in an area designated to have an elevated danger for brush fires. When I first moved here, I talked to my State Farm agent of 25 years saying I needed to get coverage. His reply was they didn't write policies in those types of areas. I'd had my home, cars, apartments, etc. insured with them for over a quarter of a century and I was dead meat to them. I ended up getting coverage through Farmers. My place is really built and maintained to resist fire. The fifth year they raised my premium 37+%. I asked them if it was legal to raise premiums that much, and of course they said it was. I also pointed out their premium raise was obviously meant to squeeze policy holders out in areas like mine. I finally found another company (Chubb) to write a policy and wrote a letter to Farmers saying I'd never buy insurance for anything from them citing their premium raise. Got a letter from them saying the premium raise was well within State guidelines, blah, blah, blah. I could say more, but I'll stop, except to say it seems companies can insure who they want, where they want, what they want, for how much they want and the State helps them right along.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Yes, insurance, HA , we walk in the dark.
Its RIGGED!
We just think we are insured.
We bet against ourselves because of a sue happy world.
We think we are insured, than there are acts of god.
OK TO the point -
I just asked the company what if one of my trees fell on the neighbor's house?
They said, "OH that is a grey area, the tree would have to be inspected for rot and blah lah."
I other words if I have a tree that might hit the house next door, I better get rid of it!
What if it HIT my house?
AHEM again blah blah blah.
I (we ) pay and pay and pay, for a product , they do the duck, dodge.
I have phoned several companies, and just wow, what is, and is NOT really covered, is not black and white.
In the end, they are telling me, buy another liability policy, buy umbrella policies.
Buy, buy, buy!
I (we) think we are covered and i (we) just might be more bareback than we planned on.

.

[stevej37]

If you do have a tree that is likely to fall on a neighbors house..it is your responsibilty.
Ins co. will only cover what you couldn't avoid.

[Crowbob]

Every single tree on the planet is likely to fall at some point. So the ins. cos. are pretty much saying any of your trees that are closer to your neighbor's house than the height of the tree is an avoidable hazard?

Crooks.

[wdfifteen]

^^
True. If a DEAD tree falls on your house, shame on you. But when there is a weather event and a healthy tree was blown ont0 my house they paid.
OTOH, some companies will drop you like a hot potato after they pay for a new roof. The roof on my daugther in law's house was damaged by hail. They pad a pro-rated amount for a new roof and gutters and canceled her policy. They don't want a pay for a whole new roof if another hailstorm came along the next day.

[Crowbob]

Was it your own tree that fell on your house, wd?

[recycled sixtie]

My fil now deceased never had house insurance on his house. Of course self insurance is
risky.

[KFC911]

All insurance co's suck....there, I said it !!!

My properties' rates went up almost 50% a couple of years ago...I've never filed a claim, ever. Ins. co's do NOT lose $...they are recoupng payouts from coastal storms and include my area due to wind...

As far as trees go....if a healthy tree falls due to wind, ice, etc. then each property owner is responsible....at least that's how it is here in NC.

Your healthy tree falls on his property/house....removal/damages to his house, etc. are his expense/insurance.

Healthy neighbor's tree falls on my side, then it's mine to incur ( or my insurance) if it hits a structure.

An an obviously dead/dying tree is different....give notice, take pics, etc. because negligence enters the equation.

[Tobra]

Insurance companies are in the business of collecting premiums, not paying claims.

If there is a way for them to not pay, they won't.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Yes, insurance, HA , we walk in the dark.
Its RIGGED!
We just think we are insured.
We bet against ourselves because of a sue happy world.
We think we are insured, than there are acts of god.
OK TO the point -
I just asked the company what if one of my trees fell on the neighbor's house?
They said, "OH that is a grey area, the tree would have to be inspected for rot and blah lah."
I other words if I have a tree that might hit the house next door, I better get rid of it!
What if it HIT my house?
AHEM again blah blah blah.
I (we ) pay and pay and pay, for a product , they do the duck, dodge.
I have phoned several companies, and just wow, what is, and is NOT really covered, is not black and white.
In the end, they are telling me, buy another liability policy, buy umbrella policies.
Buy, buy, buy!
I (we) think we are covered and i (we) just might be more bareback than we planned on.

Hi guys,

At the risk of being tarred and feather I will admit my profession. Insurance agent. I have owned my own agency for the past 20 years and been in the business 30. I am a property casualty agent. I specialize in high risk insurance at the New Jersey shore.

Let me start with afterburn's original post. First the information I am about to give is based on an ISO HO-3 special form policy. This used to be called an all risk policy. The term "all risk" is no longer used as it does not cover everything that could possibly go wrong, there are exclusions.

Afterburn you are covered if your tree falls and damages pretty much anything.Your house house, shed, pool, fence, another tree, etc. You are also covered if the tree falls on the neighbors house, car, boat, motorcycle, pool, fence, shed, kid, dog, prized rose bush, etc.

If it falls on the neighbors things you will be covered up to your liability limit. It makes no difference if the tree is alive or dead or how it fell wind, earth quake, saturated ground or you with a chain saw.

Notice I did not include your car, kid, boat, motor cycle, dog or prized rose bush. The reason I excluded these is anything that can be insured should and if you choose to insurance it, it will be covered by it's own policy. Yes you can buy an insurance policy for a rose bush. If you choose not to insurance something that can be insured then you chose to self insure and took the risk upon yourself.

You shrubbery is also insured up to as I recall $100.0 per item with a total of $500 combined. So the tree that fell is covered for up to $100.

Acts of god are covered. Lightening-covered, wind-covered, Rain-covered, hail- covered, etc. Unless SPECIFCALLY excluded. Coverage is very black and white. Insurance is very standardized not much difference from one company to another just like auto insurance, unless you get into specialty coverage like I do.

Sounds like your agent is inexperienced or you have one of those online companies, Geico, Progressive, etc. that don't use agents, so they don't know what is covered and will not offer advice.

If you haven't read your policy you should.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

Don't get me started on home owner's insurance. I live in an area designated to have an elevated danger for brush fires. When I first moved here, I talked to my State Farm agent of 25 years saying I needed to get coverage. His reply was they didn't write policies in those types of areas. I'd had my home, cars, apartments, etc. insured with them for over a quarter of a century and I was dead meat to them. I ended up getting coverage through Farmers. My place is really built and maintained to resist fire. The fifth year they raised my premium 37+%. I asked them if it was legal to raise premiums that much, and of course they said it was. I also pointed out their premium raise was obviously meant to squeeze policy holders out in areas like mine. I finally found another company (Chubb) to write a policy and wrote a letter to Farmers saying I'd never buy insurance for anything from them citing their premium raise. Got a letter from them saying the premium raise was well within State guidelines, blah, blah, blah. I could say more, but I'll stop, except to say it seems companies can insure who they want, where they want, what they want, for how much they want and the State helps them right along.

You weren't dead meat to them, they didn't insure homes in a high risk fire area. They can't discriminate. If they insure you they must insure everyone. They didn't say no to just you. They said no to everyone that asked in that area. Companies like Farmers, Prudential, State Farm, Geico and so on. What we call captive companies always under cut the rate the first few years to get you in. Typically, they will add what is called an inflation guard which automatically raises the value of your home 10% annually. That means your premium goes up 10% every year. They also know 90% of homes have a mortgage and 90% of those mortgages have escrows. That means the customer never sees the bill. So when the premium goes up $100.00 the customer sees is the monthly mortgage payment went up $8.33 a month. Again 90% of the time over looked. By the fifth year your premium is up more than 50%.

If they did in fact raise the rate it probably was within state guidelines. Admitted carriers like above are required to get state approval to raise premiums.

"it seems companies can insure who they want, where they want, what they want, for how much they want" why shouldn't they be allowed? If your premium is $1,000.00 a year and your house is insured for $200,000.00 and you have $500,000.00 in liability you don't think the insurance company has the right to say yes I will take that risk or no? Or better yet make certain demands to minimize their risk? Like cut down the sixty foot dead oak tree leaning at forty five degrees over your roof? Or you need to get rid of that dog that has already bitten three people? Or No we are not insuring your house in a high risk fire zone because even though your house may be fire PROOF, WHEN the fire rips through here NEXT TIME you will still will sustain $75,000.00 in smoke damage to the house (covered) and another $30,000.00 in smoke damage to your contents (also covered). Thanks not interested in that risk it's not a matter of IF it will happen it's a matter of WHEN and how OFTEN.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

I was talking to Farmers today, in person. (on the phone).
I am in NYS.
Yes, I know my stuff damaged by me is not covered.
The BUT, BUT, they (she) did tell me trees are all grey area. (if they damage other peoples property )
I am leaving out a couple things, but I think the result is the same.
They are happy to take the money, unhappy to perform.
Being I own two places its hard to live in them both the same time albeit they are right next door to each other.
My first policy which runs out in May on the original house expires in May.
They have elected to cancel said policy on the most flimsy reasons.
The BIG ONE I don't live there.I live next door 100 feet away.
SOOoooo.
Now I have to start all over and find new company.

Stuff damaged by you is covered. That is why I included you cutting down your tree with a chain saw. If it falls on your house, you are covered. Trees are not a gray area. It is covered. Google Farmers one of the worst for paying claims. What's their little thing at the end? Dumb, da Dumb, da Dumb?

First you can't live in two house at the same time. One is primary the other is secondary. So the house you live in your primary residence would have the HO-3 (homeowners) The other would not. That is why it is being non renewed. You may think it is a flimsy reason but it is a very valid reason. You don't live in it. The risk changes. Maybe a faulty outlet starts a fire at 2AM tonight while the wind is blowing. You live next door can't hear the fire alarm because of the wind blowing the trees. The house burns down. I will assume the utilities are on. Heat and water. Tonight's storm the wind again causes the power line to the house to break the heat goes off and the pipes freeze.

Happy to take your money and perform within the policy terms and limits. Not happy to pay for what they shouldn't or could be avoided.

What other things are you leaving out and what other flimsy reasons? Could be pertinent.

[drcoastline]

Let me add regarding cutting down the tree. The tree would not be covered because you intentionally cut it down. But if it fell on the house the house would be covered for the damage.

[drcoastline]

First go to an independent agent in your area. They will have multiple outlets to find you the proper policies.

From this conversation you are dealing with three issues.

1. The second house having the proper policy
2. Coverage. If the tree falls on the neighbors house is the damage to the house covered?
3. If the damage is covered how much will your policy pay for repairs? This is where the liability and umbrella come in.

We already established #2. yes coverage exists.

The second house is not properly covered by an HO-3 It should have a DP-3 (Dwelling Policy 3) This is a policy typically placed on secondary homes. A house at the beach or in the mountains, etc. This is very much the same as the HO-3 (homeowners policy) but having some specific exclusions and requirements. The main exclusion being liability. Which we will address when I get to #3 on our list. The requirements typically follow maintenance of the property. Such as when unoccupied the utilities be turned off and the plumbing winterized by a licensed plumber. The reason is the property is not occupied on a daily basis and could go for long periods with out inspection.

Every ISO HO-3 homeowners policy follows the same basic coverage form

A. Dwelling limit 100%
B. Personal property 50% of A
C. Loss of Use 20% of A
D. Other structures 10% of A

E. Liability
F. Medical payments to others.

The DP-3 form includes
A. Dwelling
B. Optional
C. Optional
D. Optional

E. Excluded
F. Excluded

So being liability and umbrella came up and the questionable nature of the tree. The questioning revolved around the house you do not live in. Until may if the tree fell on the neighbors house you would have coverage. After May if you had a DP-3 and the tree fell on the neighbors house you would be S.O.L. Unless the HO-3 endorsed the secondary house for liability.

This takes us to #3. Now the question is how much will your policy pay to repair the damage to the neighbors house? You need to look at item E. on your homeowners policy. That figure is the MAXIMUM the insurance company will pay. So if your HO-3 has $100,00.00 in liability and the tree causes $150,000.00 in damage the insurance company will pay $100,000.00 you will pay out of pocket $50,000.00. Most HO-3 policies you can increase limits to $1,000,000.00.

An umbrella policy covers all property you own. Houses, cars, boats, airplanes, etc. for extra liability. It is exactly as it states an umbrella, gives your basic liability policy extra coverage. So if you have $100,000.00 in liability at your home and a $1,000,000.00 umbrella you have a total of $1,100,000.00.

So in the scenario above your homeowners pays the first $100,000.00 and the umbrella pays the $50,000.00.

Also keep in mind your liability portion also pays for YOUR attorneys fees.

[LWJ]

Tree falls on neighbor? Their problem. UNLESS you had reason to believe the tree was a hazard.

I do this for this for a living.

[Baz]

I canceled my homeowner's policy as soon as I could after paying off my mortgage two years ago. This includes my windstorm policy which is separate.

In all the years owning my home with a mortgage (and thus a required HO & WS policy), I never had a claim.

That was about 18 years paying in every year (month via escrow).

So last October we had a hurricane (Matthew) blow through and I lost some shingles on my over 20 year old roof and a rear gutter.

Called up FEMA and within' 1 week they direct deposited enough $ in my bank account to pay for materials for a whole new roof (which will be gavalume this time) which I will install myself.

If I had an insurance policy the damage would not have exceeded my deductible so I wouldn't have gotten a dime. Deductibles here in Florida for windstorm damage are based on the value of your home - a certain percentage. This is the method they went to after Hurricane Andrew costs the insurance companies so much money that they hadn't expected.

So moral to the story......just because you don't have insurance...it doesn't mean you don't have some protection - other than an insurance company.

That said....one size does not fit all. My situation might be unique to others.

Risk to my dwelling is reduced by many factors including I have better control over potential accidents because I live alone except for my furballs. Also, my house was built in the 60's and is solid as a rock. I'm also in the trades so i have a LOT of buddies who could help me with repairs, should I ever need them. Most people don't have the relationships I have with other contractors in the building and construction industry.

I'm not talking about just painters and such. I'm talking about every trade involved in constructing a dwelling from general contractors who build homes to roofing contractors to framers to concrete and masons...plumbers...electricians...you name it.

Also, if you were to calculate how much money you save by not having a policy and multiple it by x number of years....it's amazing how much you in theory would have socked away to help fund any needed repairs. In 4 years I could pay for an entire new roof and that's having someone else do it.

Every situation is different so I'm not advocating what someone should do. I'm just sharing my experiences and how I have considered my situation from the stand point of actual risk.

Do what helps YOU sleep better at night and what you feel is the best fit for YOUR circumstance. That's the bottom line....

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

I live in an area designated to have an elevated danger for brush fires.

Why is it people want to build in high risk areas and then are stunned when no one wants to cover their 6 for the risky decision?