Weird stuff that hapens when you sell cars .

[fastfredracing]

Been through this many times, I've probably flipped over a hundred cars in my life .
Just sold my Boxster about a month ago.
I broke my golden rule, and sold it to someone who I know, actually, even worse. A good customer . I service his 5 series, diesel dually, and his tahoe.
He is with his wife picking up his Bimmer, and makes a comment about how nice that little boxster is, . I tell him that mine is for sale, it is sitting right upstairs. His wife drives it, and a deal is struck in 5 minutes.
I had a window motor regulator going out for a while. I had the oe regulator , and just had not put it in yet. I did that for them, as part of the deal.
I get the window done, initialize the windows, and it works great. They pick up the car the next day, and all is well. He texts me that night to thank me, his wife loves it, and he appreciates that we cleaned it all up for him .
Next week, I get a text, both windows stuck down, cannot roll either one up, and when they are driving, sometimes , they roll up and down on their own.
Took me a little bit to figure it out, but, long story short, the microswitch for the power top, would glitch , or disengage, over hard bumps, or body twist if you are rolling it through some turns. I was able to duplicate it , and make it happen by pushing on the top while driving. I got the switch , and replaced it and the windows work perfect. My wife and I drove this car daily when we owned it, and never once, did this problem happen.
I am guessing they were messing with the top, up and down, and up and down, and fudgered it up somehow, because , on his nitpick list was also that the fabric for the top came out of its place on one side. I also fixed that nc.
But what really alarmed me, is that while I was test driving the car, I noticed that it would not upshift into 5th on its own. ( tiptronic car ). You could manually get 5 th any time with the paddles, but it WOULD NOT upshift on its own.
I am now in panic mode, thinking that somehow, by some horrible struck of bad luck, the trans is going out of the boxster, most likely caused by something that his wife did, beyond my control and I know I am about to enter into an ugly situation with a good customer.
I gobble up a bunch of my time, check fluid level ( already knew it was good , it was my car last month ) Checking for codes, trying to figure out what happened, checking grounds, etc.....
I was full on ready to just take the car back, and refund them , but fudgers... I should not loose my ass, I am 100% positive the trans worked flawlessly when I gave it to them, we drove it every day, and they also test drove it 3 times. I let them take it out for a few hours the one day.
Long story short, I replace a headlight bulb that I notice out, and figured I would double check oil/ antifreeze, and tire pressures for them, and lo and behold.
fr=55 pis, lr=50 psi, rr=14 psi, and rf=29. I just set the pressures 2 days before selling it to them. I would never do this in a million years, even if I was on LSD with a bad case of the flu. I always set them right at factory pressures with a walongacre tire pressure gauge .
I air up the tires, test drive it , and all is normal again . shifts perfectly .
Disaster averted, and wave of relief washes over me. I hate drama. The only reason I sold this car to a customer, was because I knew it inside and out, and had zero doubts about everything being balls on accurate ( it's an industry term) .
They were messing with it. had to be , someone was. You know how it goes. Anything that goes wrong for the next few months, my phone will ring, and it will be my problem
No more friends, customers, or neighbors for car flips for me.
Don't you hate it when you sell something, and your phone rings the next day??
Sorry , long post

[Baz]

I hear ya, Fred.

But another way of looking at this.....is it all boils down to having faith and trust in other people....and in fact....that faith and trust "should be" even greater when you are friends with someone or a long time client.

As a business owner - you always do what in your heart you KNOW is the right thing to do.

The only way things get mucked up is when the customer doesn't understand their responsibility.

And that responsibility is to have faith and trust that you as a businessman and friend would do the right thing.

I have gone the "extra mile' many times. Taken the high road. Bent over backwards. And for that I can sleep at night.

In the end Karma seems to always sort things out.

[asphaltgambler]

Fred - I've been there a few times, but flip a lot still. Only thing I would advise you is to create a document and discuss in person the car has no warranty. If something small goes wrong, you may have some goodwill as far as labor, parts are normal mark-up for the 1st 30 days.

If the customer is 'picky' you might want to pass on the sale or add a premium $$ adjustment to the sale price so you are compensated. It's what I do.

[recycled sixtie]

He should have got a PPI before committing to it. Although I know stuff can go wrong after a sale especially with folks who are not technically minded and screw up.

Trusting you sold the car "as is" on the bill of sale. I think that you have to move on and say I cannot help you anymore. You have demonstrated that you have been good to him over the years in fixing his cars. You did not I imagine imply any warranty on this car so all fixes must be paid by him. You cannot win them all. Move on....

[Arizona_928]

When I sell a car I am up front about everything. Every minor detail. With that said I would never offer it to anyone I know, unless they Know how to turn a wrench.

[Baz]

I think some of you may be missing the point.

As I read Fred's post....it's not so much that there's an issue about who is held responsible for repairs.

It's about selling a vehicle to a close friend (and in this case a steady customer) and the subsequent possibility of strained relationships afterwards when something goes awry.

Even when everything is in writing......you still have feelings, relationships, and attitudes to deal with.

[Otter74]

I think there is a bit of a difference between a good friend and a good customer; with the customer there is sort of an inevitable custodial element to the relationship when it comes to a car, maybe any car really. Though maybe lots of friends have this expectation too and I'm lucky.

I sold my old "normal" car, a mid 90s Infiniti G20, to one of my best friends when. A really nice replacement car fell into my lap and I couldn't pass it up. I made sure all maintenance was taken care of and went out of my way to undersell the car a bit. Friend is not a car person at all, uses a mechanic for everything, whereas I am DIY and a super car person. Friend bought car, drive it across the country to CA, drove it back across the country a couple more times, put another 80k on the car and enjoyed it a lot before getting rid of it last year or so. With a good enough relationship and clear expectations, this kind of thing is trouble free.

[masraum]

Ouch, that sucks. I would mention everything to them, including that the only reason that you broke your cardinal rule was because you were confident in the car, and that someone has done things to it that have compromised the reliability. Don't do it in an accusatory way, maybe that someone is messing with them or if they took it somewhere that someone else did something, make it seem like it's completely nothing that they did but that you are aware of it. They should then realize that they should quit screwing with it or letting someone else mess with it which seems like a possibility.

[wdfifteen]

It didn't have to be a friend. You're a good guy Fred, and I'll bet you would try hard to make a sale right. Sometimes things just happen.
I sold a camera on eBay once. It worked perfectly the entire time I had it. Took some pictures with it before I listed it. They guy who bought it was furious that it didn't work when he got it. I paid shipping to get it back. Checked the serial number, yep it's my camera. Tried to take a photo - dead as a door nail. I have no idea what happened. Sometimes things just happen.

[Charles Freeborn]

Kudos to you sir for stepping up and making it right.
I agree though, friends, co-workers, family = bad customers / sellers.
I bought my 911 from a co-worker who verbally told me it had a clear title. When I went to register it DMV told me it had $2500 in delinquent registration fees. I had to threaten small claims to get him to cough it up....
Ripple effect was I got laid off - the guy was better friends with the boss than I was. Was a skeevy company anyway, and now long gone out of business...
Yah, dot every i and cross every t with a sales agreement no matter who the customer / seller is...

[Brando]

Fred, I think this thread is a testament to your good nature as a friend and businessman. It's a shame that the customer/friend keeps bringing the car back, but maybe these could be teaching moments for him. Instead of doing all the work, make it educational and get him to understand the work that goes into fixing his, err... umm, "tinkering". Hell, maybe he will even appreciate the understanding how things work and a little more confident in ownership.

Saying "I fixed XYZ" sure feels a lot better than "my mechanic fixed XYZ".

[stomachmonkey]

Pretty much why I insist my buyers get a PPI.

Some have been puzzled and I just tell them "if you buy this car the last time I want to see it or hear from you is as you drive it away"

[1990C4S]

Your bill of sale should say 'the buyer has declined my offer to have the vehicle appraised by a third party. This vehicle is sold 'as is' with no warranty expressed or implied'. While I will be happy to service and repair this vehicle, all work will be performed at standard shop rates'.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn

Kudos to you sir for stepping up and making it right.
I agree though, friends, co-workers, family = bad customers / sellers.
I bought my 911 from a co-worker who verbally told me it had a clear title. When I went to register it DMV told me it had $2500 in delinquent registration fees. I had to threaten small claims to get him to cough it up....
Ripple effect was I got laid off - the guy was better friends with the boss than I was. Was a skeevy company anyway, and now long gone out of business...
Yah, dot every i and cross every t with a sales agreement no matter who the customer / seller is...

Having a "clear title" and owing back registration fees are two different things. Normally, a clear title simply means that there is no lien from a bank loan on the vehicle.

Did the car have current license tabs on it?

[speeder]

BTW, not saying that you did not have reason to be aggrieved by this situation. Just wondering how it came to be, you buying a car w that much back reg owed and no idea.

[95avblm3]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

...I am guessing they were messing with the top, up and down, and up and down, and fudgered it up somehow, because , on his nitpick list was also that the fabric for the top came out of its place on one side. I also fixed that nc.

Fred sorry for your situation but hopefully all will be okay from now on. Sorry for going off-topic but I have to ask about the top fabric coming out of place on one side... I assume this happened where the cable is supposed to help the top drop into the channel just above the side door windows? I replaced the top in my Boxster a few months ago and am having a similar problem on the driver side. I have to manually ensure the top fits in the channel everytime I put the top up. Otherwise, the install was pretty straightforward and the results good. I'm curious how you fixed in this case? Just put the top down and back up or is there an adjustment somewhere?

I should mention that I replaced the OEM top with a Robbins with a glass window. It has extra helper straps which I installed per the directions. The car is an '01.

Sorry for the diversion but thanks for your thoughts.

[air3bwm]

Sorry for the semi hijack....

When replacing my top last summer I had the same problem on both sides. I found that there are slides that were not behind a leaf spring on the top's frame. The slide (yellow circle) goes on the aft side of the spring (green circle). Also make sure the screws attaching the spring are tight (red circle). This photo was taken with the top up. If you put the top partially down, the tension on the spring is removed and you can loosen the screws. Hope this helps.

[Charles Freeborn]

Originally Posted by speeder

Having a "clear title" and owing back registration fees are two different things. Normally, a clear title simply means that there is no lien from a bank loan on the vehicle.

Did the car have current license tabs on it?

In CA, at that time a person could file a "certificate of non- operation" and suspend the registration, thus avoiding such fines. Tags and stickers would not be current.
The title transfer was not allowed until the back fines were paid. That is, in my opinion, the definition of a "clear title" or lack thereof, in addition to what you mention.
Perhaps you should know more about a situation before you comment on it.

[Charles Freeborn]

Originally Posted by speeder

BTW, not saying that you did not have reason to be aggrieved by this situation. Just wondering how it came to be, you buying a car w that much back reg owed and no idea.

The point of the OP was not doing business with a friend or acquaintance, as they may take liberties that a stranger would not.
This was someone I worked with and assumed was a friend. We had never had "issues". When we were verbally negotiating and I asked about the "clear" status he did not cop to it, and later when informed, tried to weasel out of it. I assumed, on account of our work and friendly relationship that he would not conceal such a fact and therefore did not run the tag number before closing. I'm done explaining myself on this event. It was 15 years ago and is water well under the bridge.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn

In CA, at that time a person could file a "certificate of non- operation" and suspend the registration, thus avoiding such fines. Tags and stickers would not be current.
The title transfer was not allowed until the back fines were paid. That is, in my opinion, the definition of a "clear title" or lack thereof, in addition to what you mention.
Perhaps you should know more about a situation before you comment on it.

How would I know more about a situation than you present on a forum?

Commenting is what people do on these things, Internet forums. It's a discussion on a subject, selling or buying used cars in this instance. If you are easily offended by questions, maybe you should stay away from these deals.