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jyl 04-17-2017 11:36 AM

Why Don't We Have An Asteroid Interceptor?
 
A very large asteroid will pass close to the earth. It was discovered only 3 years ago.

https://phys.org/news/2017-04-large-asteroid-hurtle-earth-april.html

Had it been on course to strike the earth, it is uncertain if we could have stopped it in time.

Earth Unprepared for Surprise Asteroid Strike, NASA Scientist Says : News : Nature World News

A mission to develop asteroid re-direction techniques was recently killed.

https://thespacereporter.com/2017/04/asteroid-redirect-mission-put-hold/

It is puzzling to me why the USA hasn't developed an asteroid interceptor.

BlueSkyJaunte 04-17-2017 11:56 AM

I'm not worried; we have Bruce Willis!

GH85Carrera 04-17-2017 11:59 AM

It is pretty much beyond our technology to have one that would be useful.

It is like spending money on something that has very low odds. And of course as usual, it would be the USA paying for it and the entire planet gets the protection for free.

mjohnson 04-17-2017 12:25 PM

Some have proposed repurposing the H-bomb parts of a few retired US weapon systems. One or two have performance suited to nudging an asteroid.

Of course we'll need a group of retired astronauts and nuc weapons experts to run the show...

GH85Carrera 04-17-2017 12:33 PM

I believe there is a UN treaty to never send nukes into space. If would be real easy to re-direct down and save that launch time warning. A bad launch would be a real disaster.

And blowing up an asteroid just makes lots more deadly asteroids to hit more areas.

There are some clever ideas on how to avoid a asteroid strike, but we will need a LOT of lead time.

BReif61 04-17-2017 12:35 PM

What are the odds of an asteroid actually hitting the Earth? What are the odds of us hitting it with something to in order to deflect it, and the asteroid then breaking apart and the Earth then getting hit by multiple objects?

If I had to venture a guess why, it would be the high cost/low probability argument.

asphaltgambler 04-17-2017 12:43 PM

How about repurposing a police interceptor?

RKDinOKC 04-17-2017 12:44 PM

Not enough science fiction for enough people to think we could actually deflect an asteroid.

KFC911 04-17-2017 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BReif61 (Post 9554324)
What are the odds of an asteroid actually hitting the Earth? .....

Extremely high I would venture....give it time. It's only been 64 million years since the last big one...but it's certainly not the last one. Humans....we don't matter....as inconsequential as T-rex fwiw. I sleep well at night however :)

Gogar 04-17-2017 01:54 PM

i for one welcome our cosmic overlord as long as i'm right under it

Alfasrule 04-17-2017 02:08 PM

I bet we do, but just don't know it? Top Secret?
As far as a BIG asteroid hitting us pretty slim chance. We'll be warned.
But everyday we get hit by them and Mother Earth Protects us, for the time being.
Maybe someday she'll open her doors and get rid of the disease. Humans

sammyg2 04-17-2017 02:21 PM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492467686.jpg

nota 04-17-2017 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC911 (Post 9554356)
Extremely high I would venture....give it time. It's only been 64 million years since the last big one...but it's certainly not the last one. Humans....we don't matter....as inconsequential as T-rex fwiw. I sleep well at night however :)

some speculation the most recent big one
maybe wiped out the american mega-cridders
about 12,900 years ago at the Younger Dryas beginning

kach22i 04-17-2017 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 9554252)
A mission to develop asteroid re-direction techniques was recently killed.

https://thespacereporter.com/2017/04/asteroid-redirect-mission-put-hold/

It is puzzling to me why the USA hasn't developed an asteroid interceptor.


The big five mass extinctions

https://cosmosmagazine.com/palaeontology/big-five-extinctions

I don't see how saving the Earth is political, but somehow it just became so.

Quote:

Biologists suspect we’re living through the sixth major mass extinction. Earth has witnessed five, when more than 75% of species disappeared. Palaeontologists spot them when species go missing from the global fossil record, including the iconic specimens shown here. “We don’t always know what caused them but most had something to do with rapid climate change”, says Melbourne Museum palaeontologist Rolf Schmidt.
I'd spend an extra $10 a year in taxes if it meant protecting us from extinction.

MBAtarga 04-17-2017 04:42 PM

Just offer a government subsidy program for the development of a system and Elon Musk will be all over it!

rusnak 04-17-2017 04:52 PM

I run away from Earth-crossing asteroids. Or was it cross, earthy women on steroids?

pete3799 04-17-2017 04:54 PM

I've spent many quarters, back in the day, blasting asteroids.
I'm sure they'll PM me if the time comes.

Gogar 04-17-2017 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 9554637)

The big five mass extinctions

https://cosmosmagazine.com/palaeontology/big-five-extinctions

I don't see how saving the Earth is political, but somehow it just became so.



I'd spend an extra $10 a year in taxes if it meant protecting us from extinction.

Me too! We could call it the . .. . "National Space Agency" or something. Or "National Airplanes and Spaceships Admistration." I feel like I'm close. . . . hmmmmm.

kach22i 04-17-2017 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar (Post 9554665)
Me too! We could call it the . .. . "National Space Agency" or something. Or "National Airplanes and Spaceships Admistration." I feel like I'm close. . . . hmmmmm.

Article said 19.5 billion budget but short 1.4 billion for the asteroid stuff - I think.

Also might be some diversion of funds from the asteroid thing to the manned Mars thing.

Not sure what the article really meant, going to take a few more quarters.

Nickshu 04-17-2017 05:35 PM

Wasn't there a movie about that? :D:D:D

http://m.memegen.com/nvmf0m.jpg

red-beard 04-17-2017 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 9554252)
A very large asteroid will pass close to the earth. It was discovered only 3 years ago.

https://phys.org/news/2017-04-large-asteroid-hurtle-earth-april.html

Had it been on course to strike the earth, it is uncertain if we could have stopped it in time.

Earth Unprepared for Surprise Asteroid Strike, NASA Scientist Says : News : Nature World News

A mission to develop asteroid re-direction techniques was recently killed.

https://thespacereporter.com/2017/04/asteroid-redirect-mission-put-hold/

It is puzzling to me why the USA hasn't developed an asteroid interceptor.

How would you stop one?

Blow it up? Not really helpful.

Put an engine on it? Maybe a VASMIR with enough time, but then you have to power the VASMIR.

red-beard 04-17-2017 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BReif61 (Post 9554324)
What are the odds of an asteroid actually hitting the Earth? What are the odds of us hitting it with something to in order to deflect it, and the asteroid then breaking apart and the Earth then getting hit by multiple objects?

If I had to venture a guess why, it would be the high cost/low probability argument.

That is exactly what would happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnson (Post 9554315)
Some have proposed repurposing the H-bomb parts of a few retired US weapon systems. One or two have performance suited to nudging an asteroid.

Of course we'll need a group of retired astronauts and nuc weapons experts to run the show...

A nuclear explosion is space would not re-direct an asteroid. Without atmosphere, a nuclear weapon is light/heat/radiation weapon. No "explosion", since almost no material to vaporize. It would create LOTS of radiant heat some things around a nuke will simply melt. It would have to be on the surface or under the surface, and vaporize rock. But the gasses would not be as directional and very inefficient.

A good analogy, gun powder lit on fire in a pile vs. contained in a pipe.

red-beard 04-17-2017 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC911 (Post 9554356)
Extremely high I would venture....give it time. It's only been 64 million years since the last big one...but it's certainly not the last one. Humans....we don't matter....as inconsequential as T-rex fwiw. I sleep well at night however :)

Meteor crater in Arizona was formed only about 50,000 years ago.

KFC911 04-17-2017 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 9554760)
Meteor crater in Arizona was formed only about 50,000 years ago.

Wasn't that one pretty small though? I'm talkin' about a bigly one....then again, a golf ball size one hittin' yer noggin is gonna make ya say ouch :)

mjohnson 04-17-2017 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 9554754)
That is exactly what would happen.



... Without atmosphere, a nuclear weapon is light/heat/radiation weapon. No "explosion", since almost no material to vaporize...

Hypothetically, at least according to one of our lab fellows and bomb designer/physicists, the photons (gamma/x rays) would heat and then vaporize or simply just ablate the material on the surface facing the bomb. The ejected used-to-be-asteroid gas would give a reaction force/impulse that would nudge the rock in a slightly different direction. Given enough time and distance you could steer it away from earth.

like all of the best ideas, it works out on paper...

red-beard 04-17-2017 07:41 PM

160 feet (50 meters) across AND it was metallic. Supposed have lost 1/2 its mass before hitting the ground. Not tiny. The Dinosaur killer was 6 miles (10km) across.

Zhamanshin crater is about 10 times larger than Meteor Crater and occurred around 900,000 BC.

red-beard 04-17-2017 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnson (Post 9554898)
Hypothetically, at least according to one of our lab fellows and bomb designer/physicists, the photons (gamma/x rays) would heat and then vaporize or simply just ablate the material on the surface facing the bomb. The ejected used-to-be-asteroid gas would give a reaction force/impulse that would nudge the rock in a slightly different direction. Given enough time and distance you could steer it away from earth.

like all of the best ideas, it works out on paper...

Most of the energy would be wasted. On earth, in the Atmosphere, the shock-wave keeps going.

The other issue is the size of warheads. We need them to exit earth gravity. Most of the REALLY BIG bombs weighed around 40,000 lbs (20 Tons).

The largest object we've sent outside earth gravity was the ExoMars Trace Gas Orbiter last year, and it was 10,000 (5 tons). This is similar to the MK-41, which was 25MT.

jyl 04-17-2017 11:17 PM

How to Stop a Killer Asteroid | DiscoverMagazine.com

Seems like you'd detonate a nuclear warhead by the asteroid, the radiation would vaporize part of the asteroid, and the reaction force from the gas would deflect the asteroid. The tiniest deflection would be enough. It might not have to be a terribly large warhead. The WW2 bombs weighed 5 tons. We can send a 5 ton payload into orbit, then a launch vehicle, and mate them in orbit.

We might not know the composition of the asteroid well enough to predict the exact deflection, but a miss is as good as a mile.

We might accidentally fragment the asteroid, but the fragments wouldn't impact Earth unless one of the fragments continued on the exact same course as the original asteroid, which seems unlikely. And if that fragment were significantly smaller than the original asteroid, then it would be more likely to burn up in the atmosphere or cause less damage on impact.

Seems like a reasonable thing to try.

And we'd want to have the launch vehicle and warhead ready now. Suppose a killer asteroid is discovered 3 years before impact. It might take a year to design, build and launch an interceptor, then it has to travel to meet the asteroid, which will by then be much closer to Earth - the asteroid will be traveling much faster than the interceptor - and a larger deflection will be needed. Better to have the interceptor orbiting the earth and ready to launch.

Granted that means a nuclear weapon in orbit. But the US, China and Russia could jointly build the interceptor, so that each nation would be confident there is only one such warhead there. A single orbiting warhead doesn't add that much risk to several thousand warheads already in missiles aimed at each other.

Scott R 04-17-2017 11:33 PM

Nature will start over, probably with bees, that's the most logical place to start.

sc_rufctr 04-18-2017 12:12 AM

"We" can't agree on climate change and yet somehow we're going to get together on this? :(

KFC911 04-18-2017 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott R (Post 9555033)
Nature will start over, probably with bees, that's the most logical place to start.

Cockroaches....and Keef Richards :)

KFC911 04-18-2017 12:23 AM

Were we to perfect an astroid destroyer/deflector....the day we put it in place, Yellowstone will beotch slap us silly humans just for fun :).

kach22i 04-18-2017 04:53 AM

Getting a nuke into space isn't exactly safe, if something goes wrong on take off all of Florida gets a dirty bomb.

The next launch which had been scheduled for after the Challenger disaster in 1986 was to be a nuke powered military satellite. We would have lost more than a school teacher in that one.

GH85Carrera 04-18-2017 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 9555174)
Getting a nuke into space isn't exactly safe, if something goes wrong on take off all of Florida gets a dirty bomb.

The next launch which had been scheduled for after the Challenger disaster in 1986 was to be a nuke powered military satellite. We would have lost more than a school teacher in that one.

We DID lose a LOT more than a school teacher in the Challenger disaster. She was just one of the 7 people on board.

kach22i 04-18-2017 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera (Post 9555187)
We DID lose a LOT more than a school teacher in the Challenger disaster. She was just one of the 7 people on board.

I know that, but we didn't lose the whole state of Florida.

The Metro Times called it the most under reported news story of that year.

If we send nukes up into space, let it be from Russia or some far away island.

sammyg2 04-18-2017 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr (Post 9555041)
"We" can't agree on climate change and yet somehow we're going to get together on this? :(

We don't "make up" asteroids. ;)

Rick Lee 04-18-2017 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC911 (Post 9555043)
Were we to perfect an astroid destroyer/deflector....the day we put it in place, Yellowstone will beotch slap us silly humans just for fun :).

When that one goes, it's gonna be lights out for all of us and global warming will be reversed for the next several thousand years. And don't forget the Cascadia Subduction Zone. Scary stuff.

sammyg2 04-18-2017 06:33 AM

Quote:

Why Don't We Have An Asteroid Interceptor?
Found it:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492526013.jpg

sammyg2 04-18-2017 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 9555282)
When that one goes, it's gonna be lights out for all of us and global warming will be reversed for the next several thousand years. And don't forget the Cascadia Subduction Zone. Scary stuff.

Yeah, but that one only goes boom about every 630,000 years.

It's been 630,000 years since that last one so we have plenty of time wait what?

scottmandue 04-18-2017 03:15 PM

I have no doubt we could figure out a way to do it... we put a man on the moon and robots on Mars and stuff like that.

Question is can we stop trying to kill each other long enough to make it happen (and divert all the money we invest in doing all that killin).

I heard on the radio this morning (so it must be true) it would take 3-5 years to plan something like this.


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