DRUMMERS help me out.

[T77911S]

do you count measures while playing.

when I played guitar most of the time it was to charts. mainly due to the fact we were going thru so many songs each week.

what do you do if you forget where you are or forget to start counting.
like at the beginning of a song I am concentrating on being in time that I may forget to count. or during long solos. "has that been 9 measures or 10"

I listen to some jazz players and wonder how in the world do they keep track of where they are.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by T77911S

I listen to some jazz players and wonder how in the world do they keep track of where they are.

That one is easy, none of the players know where they are.

[wdfifteen]

While we're asking questions of drummers, what's the deal with those bundles of what look like chopsticks that drummers sometimes use for drumsticks? They look awfully heavy.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

That one is easy, none of the players know where they are.

THATS the problem.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

While we're asking questions of drummers, what's the deal with those bundles of what look like chopsticks that drummers sometimes use for drumsticks? They look awfully heavy.

Jazz Drum Rod Brushes Sticks Made of Bamboo. Never have used them. Always used the metal brushes.

Back to the original question: Usually there is a transition from solo that some use as a que. Hear that note or phrase then transition to the other section. I never counted or looked at sheet music outside of practice in jazz band back in HS. Pros are probably different

[Rick Lee]

I went to see Dennis Chambers with Jeff Berlin and Scott Henderson, and there were some spots where I really thought they were all in totally different songs. Their stuff is really out there. But then, all of the sudden, they'd come right back in with some crazy complicated, but very structured and synchronized transition. I didn't notice them giving each other signals or a nod and those wanderings were way too long for them all to have been counting measures, like minutes long. It was insane to watch.

[Dantilla]

Don't ask me.

As a sound guy, I can't count past two.

"One...Two...Tesssssting....One...Two....."

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Back to the original question: Usually there is a transition from solo that some use as a que. Hear that note or phrase then transition to the other section. I never counted or looked at sheet music outside of practice in jazz band back in HS. Pros are probably different

I'm a bass player so I know nutten

However I played trumpet in the HS marching band and I did something like what Aragon describes to keep track.

[Cajundaddy]

I am a six stringer but counting measures usually only happens when we first rough out a piece. As soon as we know it pretty well everybody just feels the groove and each player has a cue to go to the next section. Sometimes it is a riff, chord change, 1 measure snare accent etc. Get in the groove and follow the cues. Our drummer has a jazz/prog background and if we are doing a 4/4 and he thinks you are sleeping, he might just throw out a 5/4 measure to see if you wake up.

He keeps us on our toes and listening to each other.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I went to see Dennis Chambers with Jeff Berlin and Scott Henderson, and there were some spots where I really thought they were all in totally different songs. Their stuff is really out there. But then, all of the sudden, they'd come right back in with some crazy complicated, but very structured and synchronized transition. I didn't notice them giving each other signals or a nod and those wanderings were way too long for them all to have been counting measures, like minutes long. It was insane to watch.

What you describe is communication through the language of music and the language of music alone.

As a former practitioner, simply making the transition from being communicated to to being the communicator was a serious roadblock for me. As such, the joy of being allowed to sit in on these genius musical conversations was as exhausting as trying to keep up with them.

They don't count. They speak. Somehow.

[M.D. Holloway]

Most songs are based on 8 bars. When I was first taking group instruction in 3rd grade I would count but soon it went away and you could anticipate it. Very easy to do with rock, jazz, or blues. Back then - from 8 to 28 - I could sit in pretty much any band and without even knowing the song be able to provide fills and transition when appropriate by just listening and anticipating. Good songs are a story and like many stories they have a structure. Only in rare instances would you find a really popular piece not fit into the structure (like We Will rock You - Queen)

[M.D. Holloway]

The sticks you mention are brushes and years ago they were made of wire. They provided a very soft hit and when you have a drummer with wooden sticks playing with a band made up of a bass, few horns, maybe a piano there might not be a lot of amps. the brushes forced the drummer to be quite. Now it all handled with mics and amps and sound boards and a drummer can get really physical. Sometimes they even put them in a plexiglass cage. Personally I consider that a sign of a weak drummer. Someone with chops can play amazing and be very quite or play without having to slam and over power the other folks. Drummers are not taught that anymore. Maybe they never were. I blame it on Animal of the muppets!

[Charles Freeborn]

I'm not a drummer, but I have played with a few. On whole anyone who is counting (regardless of instrument) is diverting too much attention to that and not enough to the music.

As for jazz - or any improvisational music, it's less about how many bars and more about when the phrase or solo reaches it's natural conclusion or climax. Then the cues are either visual ( a look or nod to the rhythm section) or musical - the melody or a variation there of is woven into the solo to cue the rest of the band they're back at the head of the tune....

Just my opinion here - everyone's got at different set of parameters when they play.

[RKDinOKC]

Counting? We don't need no stinking counting...5, 6, 7, 8

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

While we're asking questions of drummers, what's the deal with those bundles of what look like chopsticks that drummers sometimes use for drumsticks? They look awfully heavy.

They aren't very heavy but they give a softer tone than a regular stick. Not really like a brush though. Hot Rods are the brand that is probably the most well known.

[wdfifteen]

^^
I did some googling based on the first response and Hot Rods were what came up. Saw some made from fiberglass rods. I'm not a musician, but I am so fascinated by the variety of sound they can get from basic little changes. Music seems like magic to me, some people get it and some are mystified by it.

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn

I'm not a drummer, but I have played with a few. On whole anyone who is counting (regardless of instrument) is diverting too much attention to that and not enough to the music.

I am a drummer and completely agree. If playing sheet you should know where you are while practicing/learning. However once rehearsing with others and performing you should be focused on the music being produced. But counting perse, should never be a problem...

[Superman]

Yup, immature drummers often play too LOUD.

There are songs in which I actually count in my head, but they are rare. They involve odd, exceptional rhythms, outside the norm. Of the fifty songs we might play in a night, perhaps one will involve me consciously focusing on a small section in a song. I do this in Barracuda by Heart. If we played Yes music, I would count certain parts.

Otherwise, from experience, with 4, 8, 12, 16 measure section....even 32 measures....it just comes natural. Also, I agree with those who said that musicians talk to one another with their instruments. My bandmates can probably 'feel' the changes as they occur because of how I play.

I am a bassist, and this role includes a certain Sargent At Arms thing. If my bandmates do get confused, it is my job to bring everyone back together.