Miata hits S2000 on track, what say you?

[masraum]

Interesting. I would assume that rules may vary from org to org, and I've never been on the track, so what do you guys think?

https://drivetribe.com/p/this-honda-s2000-driver-gets-hit-Y2ZiCXKDSim_10QfUOwMzw?iid=fLmZEjA6TrKwq_qkrGNtOQ

[masraum]

Not the guy that was driving the miata, but a response video

[rusnak]

The guy in the Honda should just stay home.

[ckelly78z]

It sucks that the guy in the Miata was so sketchy, and not upstanding, but those guys seem to outnumber us nice guys anymore.

It looks like maybe the Honda was a little too aggresive into the corner, and the Miata was a little too distracted to watch for faster traffic.

[mikehinton]

I don't know the rules for that event, but the Honda guy was making a pretty optimistic move. It also looks like the Honda guy wasn't really on the racing line approaching the apex.

[aigel]

Really? The Miata driver hit the S2000? If I was the S2000 driver, I'd apologize to the Miata guy instead of getting him to take responsibility!

Every org I have run with, you are on your own, you can't expect a driver to pay for your damage, even if they are clearly at fault. All you can hope for is that they are a gentleman / upstanding lady and help you out with it. If there is a "not so sure what happened" situation like here, everyone definitely just fixes their own stuff.

I didn't watch the whole video, just the accident, but the guy is a whiner IMHO. Typical millennial. Always someone else at fault, never yourself and now you need to make a video instead of getting the dent puller out! When my kids start acting like that I come down on them hard. FIRST place to look is at yourself - do you maybe have a role in the mishap? Because that's the only variable you can control. If this guy would think like that, he would take it as a lesson and don't drive like an ass next time he goes to a DE / track event.

G

[Jeff Higgins]

I've been doing track days for about 15 years with various organizations. Each and every one I have ever participated in requires a "point-by" from the driver of the car being overtaken, as a way of acknowledging that he has, in fact, seen you and is allowing you to pass. Beginning and intermediate groups are typically allowed to pass on straightaways only, on the left hand side of the car. Advanced groups typically have open passing anywhere on the track, but still require a point-by to do so.

Watching this incident reaffirms, for me, just why we do that. The blame is shared between these drivers - neither one is anyone I would want to share a track with in the absence of this "point-by" practice. NASA's rule is ludicrous - just how is the passing driver to know, for sure, if the other driver sees him? In the absence of the point-by, there is simply no way of knowing.

[aigel]

There are open (no point by) groups in some organizations. But there, the passer is responsible to make sure he doesn't bomb another guy in the middle of a turn. Open groups are the most advanced drivers. You aren't placed in open unless you have a longer history with the organization and a very experienced driver.

I don't know which organization this was? Definitely nobody I'd want to run with. Apparently you can ride in shorts and t-shirt!???

G

[cockerpunk]

came from nowhere, jumped him after he turned down on the apex, and gets clipped and hes mad? it was your fault dude

lol

[sugarwood]

Regardless of fault, Miata driver is sketchy.
He knew he hit him, and didn't come in, despite black flag.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by aigel

There are open (no point by) groups in some organizations. But there, the passer is responsible to make sure he doesn't bomb another guy in the middle of a turn. Open groups are the most advanced drivers. You aren't placed in open unless you have a longer history with the organization and a very experienced driver.

I don't know which organization this was? Definitely nobody I'd want to run with. Apparently you can ride in shorts and t-shirt!???

G

I very much prefer organizations that require point-bys, even when open passing is allowed in the advanced group. Again, this video highlights exactly why I prefer that. Like the guy says time and time again, this is not a race. It just makes it safer and more enjoyable for everyone involved if there is a bit more communication between drivers on the track. That, and it very much discourages these "racing" passes. Leave those for an actual race, please.

I remember years ago our local PCA "advanced" group kept getting red flagged and our sessions cut short. It was pretty frustrating. There were a few guys in the group that were very clearly racing, and the course marshals recognized it as such. It got to the point one day where the track master threatened to shut down advanced for the rest of the day and give our time to the intermediate and beginner groups. These guys were not just endangering each other, but the rest of the cars out there with them as well. While they managed this in spite of the point-by rule, it did serve to keep at least a bit of a lid on it, when they were passing the rest of us who weren't in their little "race". Racing passes belong in races, corporative passing makes HDPE days safer.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I very much prefer organizations that require point-bys, even when open passing is allowed in the advanced group. Again, this video highlights exactly why I prefer that. Like the guy says time and time again, this is not a race. It just makes it safer and more enjoyable for everyone involved if there is a bit more communication between drivers on the track. That, and it very much discourages these "racing" passes. Leave those for an actual race, please.

I remember years ago our local PCA "advanced" group kept getting red flagged and our sessions cut short. It was pretty frustrating. There were a few guys in the group that were very clearly racing, and the course marshals recognized it as such. It got to the point one day where the track master threatened to shut down advanced for the rest of the day and give our time to the intermediate and beginner groups. These guys were not just endangering each other, but the rest of the cars out there with them as well. While they managed this in spite of the point-by rule, it did serve to keep at least a bit of a lid on it, when they were passing the rest of us who weren't in their little "race". Racing passes belong in races, corporative passing makes HDPE days safer.

even while actually racing you would probably not go for that pass. in order to make that pass sucessful hed have to have been at his side pre-turn in. and he wasn't. at that point its the miatas apex, and he wont/cant really see you if you try for that pass.

with the obvious speed differential between the two drivers/cars, even under racing conditions, he should have just found a nice corner exit, and out dragged him off an apex. even in a club race, that pass was super risky, and i personally wouldnt put my car in that position.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

even while actually racing you would probably not go for that pass. in order to make that pass sucessful hed have to have been at his side pre-turn in. and he wasn't. at that point its the miatas apex, and he wont/cant really see you if you try for that pass.

with the obvious speed differential between the two drivers/cars, even under racing conditions, he should have just found a nice corner exit, and out dragged him off an apex. even in a club race, that pass was super risky, and i personally wouldnt put my car in that position.

Good point, I've watched races with multiple classes on TV and most of the prototype guys wait until after a corner and then pull away on the straight or pass on the straight unless the slower car is very obviously hanging way back to give the faster car the right of way.

The S2k guy seemed to assume that since he was faster, the other guy should stay out of his way. I think he said something like "passing always gets done between those two corners" like it's a rule and the other guy should have known. I didn't watch long enough to hear the conversation with the miata driver. Clearly there was something weird on his side too if they couldn't get him to pull in.

[Craig T]

I raced Porsches wheel-to-wheel for over ten years, was a licensed POC and PCA race license instructor, and was chairman of the POC program that brought the guys up from timed competition events to cup racing for three years. I have over 2,000 laps on Buttonwillow.

Let's set aside how "sketchy" the guy in the Miata was, and that he blew the flag. The fact is, the Miata was on the correct line and it is the responsibility of the faster car to make a safe pass. It was the Miata's apex by two car lengths.

If it was an open passing run group, the rule still applies. Nothing is more unsafe than a slower driver driving in his mirror and going off-line for faster drivers. A slower driver on the racing line is predictable. The Honda could have waited two turns and gone right around him on the outside. There was no prize money on the line here.

If it was a point-by run group, then the guy in the S2000 is not just a whinny baby, he's an asshat.

That contact in a proper race and the S2000 would likely have been written up in his log book.

My conclusion, the guy is a whiny crybaby who never feels accountable for his actions and was driving wreckless.

[matt930s]

And get the ****ing camera out of his face!

mattR

[Por_sha911]

"sketchy" is a polite word for douchebag.
Even if he was right, you don't hit another guy's car and then refuse to respond to the black flag.

[sc_rufctr]

Note: We don't see the damage to the Honda in any of the videos. (or do we?)

[wildthing]

This is why I don't do track days. I might some day if I have enough disposable income, as in, I can afford a dedicated track car that has a higher likelihood of damage, either by my own fault or by somebody else.

I will, however, probably pay for those racing schools where they provide the car.

[Tobra]

Contact was the fault of the guy in the Honda. He was not anywhere near the racing line. The guy getting passed may have known he was back there, but probably did not expect him to go for that pass. Miata guy was a d-bag for not coming in after it happened. The guy making the video says he blew by the black flag, the whole thing was too tiresome to watch, so I don't know if this is really what happened. Honda guy is a whiny douche, and compounded his douchiness by video taping the Miata guy while they were "talking it out." I got to that part and had to shut it off.

If he is going to keep doing track days, he needs to sell that S2000 and buy something that can get dinged a bit, and it won't make his vagina sore.

I wonder if he turns it in to his insurance company. This sort of activity is generally excluded in most policies, do you suppose he commits insurance fraud too? My money is on yes.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

"sketchy" is a polite word for douchebag.
Even if he was right, you don't hit another guy's car and then refuse to respond to the black flag.

Inexperienced drivers don't always see the flags when they are rattled.