Black .036

Green .038

Red .041

yeah and the more I think about it, it should be fine to just take the bus out and weld up the corrosion, grind flush and put in a new breaker with Noalox and be done.

To minimize corrosion I could have it anodized. (that was a joke. :))

If those voltage drops are at full load or near to it, then you're fine. For now.

Can you define full load.

That's with all inside breakers on except for the air compressor and the Cerakote oven breakers.

Surprised no one has not asked this sooner but is it 220 or 221? ;)

Full load would be the maximum draw it will see, ovens and compressors running I suppose.

Your voltage drop is negligible. It is okay for now. It does need to be replaced.

I could be wrong here but I have done A LOT of wiring on the residential and commercial side and I have never seen 3 legs on a single phase system.
Btw, I'd definitely check amp draw. You could be overloading the center leg but I still think your problem is making proper contact. Arcing occurs when the contact isn't solid.
If your power comes from a pole, does it have two or three wires up top?

OK, thanks. I'll do some more testing tomorrow though I never have the oven running and the compressor running at the same time.

I'll also try to determine what runs on which leg. That would be easier with the center in failed mode. I am fairly certain the compressor isn't on the center. The compressor does run a lot during the day, 5hp 80 gallon Dewalt, 230V single phase. One of the best tools I've ever bought.

The oven is used only a few times per month when I have bigger batches or big items. I'm doing a roll bar so will look at drop then too.

Hey Nick, based on readings, it is 3 phase which means Nstar is wrong.

I'll also be checking amp draw. The oven could be on the center leg but it isn't used all that much. Maybe 8 hours per month. Some months not at all like August. This month I have a roll bar and a ton of 964 engine parts so that's about 6 hours total.

I would think if you were overloading the circuit you'd see evidence of it elsewhere. The wires don't look oversized for the breaker so I'd say you're not overloading. I'd just make sure you're making good contact on that center leg.
Legal disclaimer: I'm not an electrician... but I like beer.

How about hot wings? :)

Yep! I like wings too. Kinda goes hand in hand with the beer.

I usually do a "Hot wings and Homebrew" party in the summer. I break out a pot and deep fry about anything short of my dog, wife and kids.

Then come on down. Bring some of your homemade beer, I'll make wings and we can pull the bus out and I'll TIG up the corrosion, put it back in, done. We should limit ourselves to 3 beers, each, while doing this of course.

it's good to have priorities.

3 beers per hour or for the job? If for the job.... I'm out!

ok, hour. :D

If he was overloading the center leg the breaker would trip.

There is no evidence the neutral is overloaded, and that's almost impossible anyhow...

With what I consider full load, readings were:

.053
.055
.046

This is with most ceiling lights on, combination of older fluorescent and new LED but more importantly both the compressor running and the oven running. Office stuff and fridge running too.

What do you think?

Can I just TIG weld the bus while it's in place and the meter on? :D

It's kind of welding itself at this point, isn't it?

That is fine. Last step might be a laser thermometer...just to see if anything is too hot.

I've got a nice Fluke laser thermo.

Can you recommend a good breaker? I want to change that in the near term. It has been working fine since cleaning.

I think that breaker can be swapped with Murray and Square D HOM but I'd bring the original with you if you can to compare.

OK, I now officially need a licensed electrician.

September through today was pretty much bliss. Everything worked. What I found was there was a lot of corrosion between the center breaker blade and the pole coming from the meter. I pulled the sheet metal screw out and sanded the back of the blade and the face of the pole, cleaned the screw, applied Noalox and put it all back together.

Yesterday there an explosion of some sort down the street and all the e- on our street went out. Came back one after the e- company repaired it.

But now my center pole is gone again and even worse, look what has happened to it. Just took a pic now.

How does that happen? What happened? Inside breakers on this pole are for wall plugs and lights in storage rooms.

Other two poles are fine. I wonder if this is what happened to my microwave.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512760824.JPG



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512760824.JPG



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512760824.JPG

Bad connection = heat. A lot of heat. Marginal design...****ty material...old age. (Just like me).

You need a better connection and some NoAlox. I hope that's what I see on the blade connection.

Actually, you need a new box and breaker.

Thanks! It is both a bad design and materials are junk. You would think there would be regulations about this sort of thing. Or you would think someone making a breaker box would only want to use the highest quality components.

I had cleaned in between the two with sandpaper and a can of brake cleaner. Noalox slathered in between and then put in and tightened the screw.

Yes, there's Noalox at the blade connection but as you can see in the center it's been burned away.

WTF?

Very frustrating.

I'll take it apart on Sunday.

Why don't you get electrocuted while removing the screw? Does the handle not conduct e-? If you touched the blade with your hand, would you get electrocuted then? The sandpaper I used to sand it was velcro backed and stiff so easy to slide in between without actually touching anything directly.

Get a PRO to do it...

^ +1

It will likely end up costing you close to four figures in labor and parts - but that is what is needed and the ONLY way I see this issue getting resolved.

Edit - and yes - you can get electrocuted if you touch those internal metal tabs - either by hand/finger or tool!

Certainly seems like 120/208 3-phase. 120V from any one of the 3 "hot" legs to neutral, and 208V 1-phase between any 2 "hot" legs. 208V 3-phase when you use all 3 "hot" legs.

I would ask why there's even a circuit breaker outside. Around here (WI) the power company service would connect directly to the line side of the meter socket. The load side of the meter socket would feed a main breaker in a distribution panel inside the building. Even with 2 meters, there wouldn't be any circuit breakers outside.

You're crazy to be messing around with those bus bars while they're energized.

Since you asked this question I have to answer: If you don't know the answer you shouldn't be doing it....

But yes, the handle is the insulator. (It's a very good insulator, a plastic handle saved my life once on a live 600 volt line). If you were to touch a live conductor and if your feet were 'grounded' (or a hand leaning on the box) your body would be the conductor and you might die.

It appears that after your repair you did not have enough surface area in contact on the middle phase. If it were clean and a bigger area your repair might have worked. But look at the conductor size (copper) versus the aluminum area you repaired. And note that Noalox is not a good conductor, it just prevents oxidation. A small area of aluminum carrying 100 Amps won't last.

Replacing the three flat conductors with new aluminum (or copper and NoAlox) would work, but it is likely against code.

Replace it all. And be careful. It is unlikely to kill you. But it could.

The first two responses to this thread identified your problem.

Hire a pro and replace the whole system.

Please "call the man".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa1ez7yL_T4

Thanks, I stand on a palette when working on it. Also I wrapped the screwdriver with EPDM; thought that a direct connection would kill me good. It's snowing today so not going to touch it until tomorrow. I may end up making a copper blade for the center.

I agree, I don't understand who would make such a crappy box given the surface area and quality of materials.

A pallet is a good idea, as are leather gloves and sleeves. The right thing to do is turn the incoming power off. Maybe when you replace the breaker you can install a disconnect switch upstream, if that's allowed.

Why is it so cheap? Because people like me go to HD and grab the cheapest 100 Amp breaker box on the shelf. Every penny saved counts. It's the norm now. Walmart, HD, Amazon. Doing things the best way is a rarity.

The box meets the minimum spec. Indoors it might last 50 years, outdoors probably five to ten. Make sure it has some extra rain protection when you're done.

I do where leather gloves too.

I'm an opposite end of the spectrum kind of person. If a customer's part isn't as good as it can be when I'm done, I redo it on my dime.

Let me be the one-millionth customer to tell you to replace the whole mess.

When doing so, I will suggest the following:

Run the overhead service to the meter, then run the service to a disconnect, then run the service inside the building to a breaker box. Around here, the local utilities will often give you the meter cans for free, so ask around.

I would get rid of the landscaping in that area. That has been part of your problem, thus far. You have a moist little micro climate where you don't want it.

I would not swap in a homemade copper blade. Use parts made for that system, or swap whole box.

Can you buy the same box? If so probably less than $100. Have an electrician swap the guts.......

Don't work on it live. I have no problem swapping switches/receptacles hot, and swapping breakers, but I'm nuts and even I wouldn't wire that hot.

Back in January of 2014 the problem was identified for you.

You want the cheap way out, everyone knows that is the more expensive option.

Hire someone that knows what they are doing, you've already negated any fire insurance you might have had.

I'm going to get some quotes. I am sure I can make better blades for all three than I can buy.

My problem with paying people to do things is the work is never up to my standards. My chrome shop fired me once because I am pickier than Paul Russell doing $20M Ferrari work.