BTW I've bought several cars online before including a prior 964 and never had any problems. I was just surprised at the seller in this case and double surprised by the PPI provider. Its clear the PPI provider didn't protect the buyer and do their job, so much so that they admitted they are stopping doing it. But the damage still happened in the meantime...

I'm no 964 expert and I'm not trying to be mean but does this seem odd to anyone else?

I call BS on the PPI provider.

ABS and airbag should have thrown codes on a simple OBD read.

If the car went up on a rack, which it should have, missing fender liner should be obvious to someone that doesn't even know what it is.

For those saying "what did you expect from a 180K car" that's crap.

It's the reason he got a PPI, so he knew what that 180k car might need and could negotiate a fair price based on what the car needed.

Cosmetic stuff is one thing, but based on the OP's list this vehicle has serious safety issues that disclosed may have made him to decide to pass.

He was denied the opportunity to make that decision.

I think the single biggest mistake here was taking the car to the PPI shop that the seller recommended. For all the buyer knows, the car is going to his best buddy for the "inspection".

Heartily agree with both these posts.

Mistake was made in choosing who did the PPI.

Now you have a mess on your hands.

IMHO, there's nothing wrong with buying a car long distance....as long as there's someone (or ones) there to represent YOUR best interest.

Get a good lawyer now.....good luck!

A 964 for a 16 year old? Wow.


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Yes he is a very lucky kid. Worked very hard to earn it.

Yup, bought my car long distance.

Was in FL.

Had my brother run it over to his buddies at TurboWerks for the PPI.

Car got to NY, DME went south couple of months later.

It's how I found Pelican.

Local P-Car shop here took a look and also did a PPI, unasked for and no charge, which matched line for line the one I got from Turbowerks.

If you ever need a P-Car shop in NY, specifically Long Island, shameless plug for Tasso and TKX performance.

You'd be hard pressed to find a more honest and capable guy.

He is the John Walker of the East coast.

Well, for 35k I would expect a pristine concours car...

For everyone suggesting suing... have you done it before? I hire lawyers all the time, usually for evictions or contract disputes, or other business issues.

Just saw a lawyer last week... $800/hour, $5000 retainer. Chewed through most of the retainer in 1 visit, I suspect. Cheapest lawyer I know is $250/hr.

A simple eviction can run $2000-3000. My friends have spent $10k plus.

Not telling anyone what to do. But getting back to realistic expectations...

If one wants to hire a lawyer to make things right, to correct a moral right, that's one thing. To make it carry financial sense, FOR EITHER PARTY, that's another.

This would be a nice situation for the seller and buyer to come to some kind of agreement.

Selling the car, assuming what the OP says is true, for $35k is "well sold" by any means. May make sense for the seller to do a partial refund...

Bo

I have offered to return the car for $31,500 (10% less) plus cover shipping both ways ($1,500 x 2 = $3k). So a total loss to me of $6,500.

Haven't heard back yet from seller.

I hope the seller does the right thing.

Next time I'm pretty sure you can find a 964 in California.

front clip welded on, as in the front is from a different chassis :eek:

I would hope a 2$ ppi would find that

depending on your definaition of nice, Ill take as many as I can get at that price, and give you a 10% finders fee

The market has sofened a bit in the last year or 2 but a 100k mile 964 with MT and no stories is a 40k car these days, crazy as it seems

You are bending WAY over backwards to untie the deal....wow....if he doesn't accept your offer....he's definitely a d-bag, all things considered.

My philosophy, in these kind of deals, is everyone has a responsibility up to a point - to make the deal right.

I'm one of those who suggested to see a lawyer. Why? Because laws vary from state to state and without speaking to someone who knows what the laws exactly are regarding a fraudulent auto purchase he is walking blind. Advise from us here is nice but unless the person knows exactly what he can or can not do it doesn't matter.

Most law society's have a service that they can refer you to a lawyer that is knowledgeable in the field that you need him in. Most lawyers will see a client for a nominal fee to determine if they will take the case and advise the potential client what his chances of success are and the expected costs.

What we know is the seller lives in two states. It will have to be determined which state's laws take precedence in the matter. The seller told the buyer to go pound sand when the buyer contacted him about the car. So "making a deal" with him is out. The PPI garage offered to return his fee. If he accepts their cheque does this absolve them of lying to the buyer? He purchased the car based on their PPI information. Only a lawyer can tell him if it does.

The buyer might be stuck with the car. Only someone who knows exactly what the laws are can tell him different.

A buddy of mine mother took her car to a local carwash. One of those places where you hand them the keys and the car comes out the other end washed, dried and vacuumed. Well somewhere inside her fender got damaged. She tried to talk to the manager and he denied anything happened. Her son called the manager and was told to pound sand. He went to a local lawyer and for $50 the carwash was sent a letter explaining how much was expected from them to pay for the damages. A week later she got a cheque for the damages (repairs, car rental while being fixed, ect) and the $50 her son paid the lawyer.

Yes if he has to sue it will cost money but it's either that or kiss the $35K for the car bye bye.

Best case the buyer has a lawyer send the seller and the garage owner a demand letter asking for a full refund and the seller to pay for shipping and his costs. The garage owner puts heat on the seller and they settle for refund for the car. Worst case he has to sue.

At least he will know what his options will be.

I, myself, never said anything about suing.

I just said "talk to a lawyer".

I am very fortunate to have all kinds of lawyers as good friends of mine.

Any of them would help me with initial counsel at no expense.

To the extent that they will help guide me to make the right decision as to whether it's worth it to take formal legal action.

That's what any good lawyer will do - whether or not you have a friendship with them as well.

I think most here also recognize what a well-worded letter could do with a law firm's letterhead.

Not in the past 2-3 years you haven't.

Is this the one?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/968871-1990-porsche-964-carrera-4-a.html

He might be able to engage a lawyer in the seller's state. I did that once when I bought a windshield from a guy that sold a lot of them online. "Windshield Rick" or something like that located in the mid west. The windshield arrived at the shipping depot, I had them open the shipping box, & it was totally smashed. I refused delivery and contacted the seller who said he'd ship another. Never happened and I got stonewalled. I contacted some government agency in his state, got referred around and finally found an attorney who I contacted. After explaining the situation, he said he'd just have his paralegal staff handle it to save me money. The seller got an attorney, who mine said he knew & commented he was totally incompetent. Ended up I got my refund back. Cost me something like $100, but it was mostly the idea. Pissed me off.

Yup. $35k will barely buy a trashed tiptronic cabriolet 964 unless you get lucky.

Nice wordplay.

Sounds like, "I had the front tub, the part that was welded on, checked out...."

Surely that professional would have noticed the front clip issue and informed him, unless he's not as professional as professional typically implies.

Curious if that pro does PPI's in his shop?

Your right, it was 4-5 years ago... I didn't think prices went up that much last 3-4 years? Thought they were flat.

I only track 930's, and they seem to have gone down, figured everything else went down a bit too...

My apologies of that's way off...

So, is it fair to say that a $35K 964 coupe with 187,000 miles is priced well below market value? If that's the case, I don't believe the buyer should expect a pristine car with no issues.

That's not a prepurchase inspection sheet... that's the same inspection my Toyota dealer does during an oil change... pretty much exactly the same form... Its looking for any due maintenance.

Maybe the guy doing the inspection had no idea what he was doing? A kid?

The inspection report, is technically truthful, as it doesn't address any of the critical issues...

Most guys want a leak down, and collision check. That's the big stuff. I could care less if a lightbulb is out...

My last pre-purchase inspection was $675.

+1- what a joke of a form.

Lied thru omission.

rjp

Strange thing is I only received this after the service, during the service I had purchased a PPI based on time, and they billed me 2 hours of inspection time.

I agree the shop did not do the right thing here, and they agreed and even have stopped doing them now.

Exactly, that's the one they use to get your wife to buy their $800 air filter and tranny flush.

How did the tech know there were 2 sets of wheels, as noted in his comments?

Yup, definitely not a PPI. A good PPI will be pages of notes and measurements, and many include photos as well. Who did that, Jiffy Lube?

I think the seller dropped them off

BTW the hood emblem fell off yesterday, the latch for hood doesn't work, the passenger door won't open now, and the battery is not mounted and is about to break the ground cable.

If this is in fact the car, I assume salvage title? If so, the buyer should have done a LOT more digging. Again, not that it absolves the seller of being honest, but you should do a lot more research on a salvage title car.

You are offering to accept a loss from your prior post...

Would it be plausible to just spend $5k and fix the car? You lose the money either way...

If the car truly had a full engine rebuild, that has a lot of value (assuming it was done right). Contact whomever did the engine rebuild, verify it.

With a full engine rebuild, that car is worth a bunch more than I originally (pessimistically) thought. A good rebuild will run $5000-8000 in parts (as I am right now learning...)...

Any more info on the frame work? Thats a big issue... might be a huge hurdle to cross. The rest, seems fixable...

No one asked so I will... where is the seller on this? No comments? Surely he saw the posts... or not?

Not a salvage title
Seller told me a parking lot bumper bender

A lot of things don't add up in this story.

If it's the car posted above it's claimed it was an "off road" accident.

I read that as either local amateur rally or some sort of DE track day event that PO's insurance would not have covered and that PO may have had deep enough pockets or skill to repair in order to dump and retain max value.

So, nonins claim, no salvage title.

You mentioned posting pictures today?

Does Motor Meister have an east coast franchise?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1504460417.jpg

Red fan!

That PPI sheet is funny.

No, but he should expect an honest PPI listing the car's actual flaws.

Pretty much.

I got a good deal on my car.

It had cosmetic issues but was mechanically sound.

Had the opposite been true it would very likely would have been no where near the same good deal.

Regardless of what he paid, buyer was not offorded the choice on exactly what his ultimate cost would be.