OT - What do you think and feel about this,...
 

Do you think we are gonna go to WAR? Do you think they will or try to use NUC/ BIO weapons against the USA? I have been watching the news ALL day and they just said that the gask masks that our troops are or might have to wear are defective and they will not prevent them from breathing in any chemical agents they might use. This guy that phoned into the news station said that it wont kill the troops right away but will affect the troops down the road. This other guy said this is not the time to be talking about that and not to worry they do work. What the hell is going to happen? If you havent noticed, I am nervous.http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...s/pukeface.gif



_______ http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/ar15.gif_____________________ http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/mgwhore.gif___________
http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/uzi.gif______________________ http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/rlwhore.gif______

Im pretty sure Sadam will use biochemical weapons on our troops. I just hope that they take him out quick enough that he won't get to use his weapons. But it is war and one should prepare for the worse.

-Gus.

Wait! Saddam says he doesn't have bio or chem weapons!!!????!!!

since he has already used them against his own people, i think he will use everything he has against us, which will include banned chemical agents, and bio agents if he gets the chance. doubtful has nuclear weapons.

he will also attempt to destroy his own oil refineries.

i doubt he will be taken alive, or surrender or agree to go to another country to spare innocent lives.

but as his military strength is about half of what it was durning desert storm, it will be over relatively soon. i hope.

<img src="http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/blackfoot/turbo_120%20lighter.jpg">

What ever happens I hope it happens quick. My best friend is waiting for "the call" from his Marine reserve post to be sent over seas.

I don't want to see him leave...

I just had terrorism traing and recieved a dufflebag of gasmasks and tyvex suits..your scared...Im scared!!!!!!

Guys,

Congratulations you are rational,normal human beings, and should be scared.

I get pretty ticked when I go to my pub and all these idiots are jumping up and down how we should "kick Iraqi but" and "kill em all" and what they would do to em. blah,blah,blah

These obvious morons 1.) would never enlist 2.) if the draft were started again would leave the country 3.) know more about football than politics 4.) would go to a Tampa-Wisc. game in lieu of voting

I met these same idiots in '70s just on the other spectrum.

I lovingly call them "Americas Elite Colon Commandos"

Sorry had to Vent: USMC 1975-1982

Rick :(

I'm sure the place will be pretty much demolished before we go in to "clean up" We'll bomb them untill they are exhausted. Even if they have the weapons I don't think they'll have much of a chance to deploy them. I have several friends in or on the way to Kuwait. As for me I'm still around Afganistan..

I do not want to be drafted.

We wouldn't even care about Saddam if Iraq didn't have the 2nd largest stockpile of oil in the world. He is a convenient excuse.

The fact of the matter is that there are far more pressing threats in the world right now than Saddam Hussein. North Korea has their finger on the trigger, and the remnants of the Tali Ban still have us on "orange alert" as I type this. What's the Bush administration's response?:

"Uhhhhh... well...we have intelligence that says that Iraq is supporting the Tali Ban. Yeah, that's the ticket!."

Look at it from Saddam's point of view: even if he does have weapons, if he used them on the United States or any European country, the entire world would now have a very good reason to attack him - remember, at this point most of the civilized countries in the world are against this war. Saddam would be crazy to attack the U.S. unprovoked. But what we are doing right now is provoking him... we are forcing him into a corner. Have you ever cornered a cat or a dog? Do you know what happens?

Is Saddam a twisted, demented f***er that has no place ruling a country? Absolutely, but we didn't seem to care when we funded and supported him during his war with Iran during the Reagan administration. We even patted him on the back when he was done. Same thing that happened when the Russians were invading Afghanistan... the Russians were the enemy-of-the-moment, so we supported the Tali Ban-controlled government. Most of the weapons and training they have are thanks to us. The government will support any cause, no matter how devious it is, if popular support dictates that they are the lesser of two evils. And that's the way it works.

So let's look at why we are probably going to war in the coming weeks:

1)The economy is failing. Nothing boosts an unhealthy economy like a good war.

2) Oil is the single most profitable resource on the planet. The country that controls the world's oil controls the world. And if you have any doubt that this is true, think about the fact that the reason the US was involved in Vietnam was because they deemed the climate and soil to be perfect for raising crops. The government has admitted that the "threat of Communism" was just a convenient excuse.

3) Bush wants to go down in history with a good approval rating. Wars tend to do that: "oh, he's such a good leader!"

4) The American people are scared because of the threat of terror, and when the American people get scared, they tend to want to crush any and all threats immediately. I actually heard otherwise rational people say we should "nuke Afghanistan" after the Sept 11 attacks. Ill-informed and vengeful? If they were litigious, it would be an American hat-trick. And if you have any doubt that this really happens, please remember that after the Pearl Harbor bombings, the government put all the Japanese-Americans they could find into concentration camps.

I know I am going to get flamed for this post because Americans have the innate ability to label anyone that criticizes their government as "un-patriotic" and either a "hippie" or "commie." But remember, there is an old saying that goes "the people that love their country the most are the ones most critical of it" (i think Thomas Jefferson said that, but I could be wrong). Also, Americans have the innate ability to believe every word they get from CNN and the New York Times. Wake up, everyone... those are media outlets with political reasons for saying what they say. Just because CNN says Sadam is a pressing threat doesn't make it true.

That being said, flame on!!!! :)

Enlist.

The major difference between Iraq and North Korea is that Iraq is surrounded by many Arab Countries that could give a rats ass if Saddam possesses weapons of mass destruction. North Korea is surrounded by countries that do care and will take the appropriate action when the time comes. I frankly am tired of the "blame America" crowd and all these peacenicks who look past the evil done by dictators like Saddam and have nothing better to do than say things about this country that would get them killed in Iraq if uttered there. The vast majority of the anti-war demonstrators are left winged, liberal, hate Bush, pot smoking, long haired hippies who wouldn't serve a day in the United States military if this country needed them. That's a shame.

Stephen

CJFusco - STOP MAKING SENSE!

China and Korea are more of a threat to us than Sodom Insane but as long as they can supply us with oodles of cheap labor we will turn a blind eye to their atrocities.

Scottmandue, you are absolutely right.

"I frankly am tired of the "blame America" crowd and all these peacenicks who look past the evil done by dictators like Saddam and have nothing better to do than say things about this country "

Oh, you think Saddam is the only one 'doing evil?' How about when the U.S. bomed a Nicaraguan pharmacutical plant during the Clinton administration - an act that the UN forbade us from doing, calling it an act of terrorism - which resulted in the deaths in MILLIONS of innocent people because they couldn't get their medicine. Just because America does something doesn't mean it's "right".

I do not have long hair, I don't smoke pot regularly. I am a Dean's List college student, close to graduating cum laude, who just happens to care passionately against politics. Most of the people that I know are against this war, and they are not "long haired, pot-smoking peacenicks" either. They are intelligent and rational people. As a matter of fact, I have a bunch of friends studying political science, and none of them can make sense of why so many American people are tricked into thinking this is a just cause.

Would I have served in the military in WWII? Yes, absolutely. Would I have served in the military in Vietnam? No. Would I serve in the military right now? No, because I don't agree with what the government is doing. I would be a man of low moral conviction if I put my beliefs aside just because the government told me to. Am I liberal? Somewhat... I have some concervative beliefs, I have some liberal beliefs. Do I hate Bush? No, but I don't think he's fit to run a country either. Would I rather have Gore in office? Not especially, there are things i like about him and things I dont - but I know that he makes more sense when it comes to foreign policy.

Sorry CJ but your liberal press rant just doesn't support facts.

First Irak has between 5 and 10% of the known world oil reserves. Insignificant compared to Alaska, Russia and Venezuela.

Keep in mind that I would rather keep Saddam holed up but the situation in that area is more than just inside the borders of Irak.

Yes there is oil involved in this. France and Germany have seen fit to bypass the embargos and sell technology that has enabled Saddam to rebuild his WOMD's. They take Saddam's oil and his profits from other oil sales. Oil money that could have gone into developing infrastructure for his citizens. France is stalling because they will be exposed.

Had the US under Bush-1 been more interested in oil we would have gone all the way to Baghdad.

Had the US been interested in only the oil we would have bought all we could bypassing the UN like France and Germany did. Surely a lot cheaper in costs and human lives.

Now we see the same situation developing that resulted in the invasion of Kuwait (for oil). Saddam is a problem for the local Arab community but they keep their concerns a quite whisper in the ear of the US so as not to upset their bastard son Ben Laden and his extreme followers. As a threat to the local countries which do supply the ROW with oil it is an "oil" thing.

the Al Qeada connection has been firmly established. There is no doubt. Even France admits to it.

Yes "Americans" believe most everything the liberal press throws at them; CNN and the NYT included. Just where did you get your arguments??????

As to wither you are UN-American. Possibly. It's obvious that you are mistaken in your perceptions.

BULL *****! Show me anything in any publication that Clittons stupid cruise missile attack killed more than just the night watchman. I'm also confused as to why the destruction of an "aspirin factory" would result in the "death of MILLIONS". BULL *****!

And the plant was NOT in South America!!!

Must be an easy college there CJ!!!

You wanted a global economy -- a global world. Now you have to take the heat that such brings. I'm tired of our actions of self preservation being called right or wrong. I'm going to live to see tomorrow even if I have to blow the ROW of the face of this planet.

"Live Free Or Die"

I'm sorry but I do not want to fight. This may sound weird or not make any sence,... but I WOULD take somones life if they tried to take mine or anyone else's life in the immediate area as self defence. I do not want to go to some other country where they are going to try and kill me(fact) just so I have a reason to kill them. Yes, the taliban destoyed and killed thousands of people when they dropped the twin towers. I'm sure saddam has NUC/ BIO weapons that he could probably use on the US and by that he is threating my life. I do not want to go out there to kill people. If one of those taliban guyz were standing right in front of me and tried to kill me,... then he'd better pray for his life because I would have no problem taking it from him. I want to stay behind and take care of my mother and my brother and sister. My mother has a friggin heart condition and many other problems. If something happened to her there would be no one to take care of the kids. My father? My father hasnt seen the kids in YEARS and neither have I. I would not let him touch the kids. The rest of the family dont really give a rats ass about us because of there selfish ways.

You are somewhat right, somewhat wrong, So-Cal.

Iraq does have roughly 10% of the world's known oil reserves... making it the second-largest oil producing country in the world, after Saudi Arabia. Venesuela also has near that amount (as far as Russia is concerned, last i heard the report was that the Russian government has no idea exactly how much oil is in the northern part of the country... it's too hard to approximate). There is a comparative amount of oil in Alaska and Texas combined, but much of the oil in Alaska is in protected wildlife preserves. Bush has tried passing bills to drill in these preservations, but Congress repeatedly shoots him down.

"Had the US under Bush-1 been more interested in oil we would have gone all the way to Baghdad. "

I think you're missing the point here. We are not trying to STEAL all the oil in Iraq; we merely want to ensure that we have access to the oil at a reasonable price, and that we can regulate what that price is. We could NEVER just "go all the way to Baghdad"... that would have the rest of the world up-in-arms and we would make many, many more enemies than just Iraq, the Tali-ban, N. Korea, and China then. The US is trying to control the world's oil market, not forcibly take over a country and make enemies out of most of the world.

And, yes, the media is "liberal," but it is "liberal" in the same sense of the word as the Democratic Party is "liberal," and Joe Lieberman is "liberal." They would still have the same agenda as the Republicans... they are two sides of the same coin. I don't like most Democrats much more than most Republicans. Ted Kennedy excluded ;) .

And as far as being "Un-American?" I only want what's best for our country. Speaking out against something that I think is wrong does not make me un-American. A lot of protesters were called un-American in the late 1960s and early 1970s, yet now most government officials admit that Vietnam was a mistake. Funny how that works out, isn't it?

I don't think I'M the one mistaken in my perceptions.

and overkill, i agree with you completely. I could not bring myself to murder another human being.

Sorry I mis-typed. The Reagan administration bombed Nicaragua, the Clinton adminitration bombed the Sudan asprin factory (claiming it was a weapons plant?). Good catch on your part. See what happens when you don't pay attention to what you're writing.

Answer the other parts of my statement. You are avoiding the issues.

It's not un-American; it's UN-American.

"Live Free Or Die"

Answer what other parts of your statement? I only see one part with question marks (you see, you can only "answer" something if there is a question), and it is "where exactly are you getting your information????" Okay, well I don't know exactly what you mean about "information," but I have several sources of "information." BBC is great, and much less biased than CNN (although I do watch CNN). Howard Zinn's books and articles are amazing. Ditto Noam Chomsky. TIME, Newsweek, Rolling Stone, just about any magazine concerned with politics, I snatch it up.

And what issues am I avoiding? That is the last issue you posed that I had yet to answer, I believe.

You know,... about the economy,... they have been talking alot about it on the news too.

"Reasons this war might be good for the economy." - Fox

I have been watching alot of the news lately and they have been talking alot about stocks and such. What to buy? "Well, when the stock drop,... BUY BUY BUY! When the war is over SELL SELL SELL!". Bassically. I am not very political. I'm lucky that I even know how to spell it. I had gathered the idea that there are going to be people looking to take advantage of this. This is why I hate PEOPLE or should I say HUMANS,... Some people think that this war is necessary and Sadam and AlQeada has to go down because they are a MAJOR threat to the US of A. God, I know what I have to say but don't know how to word it. I am scared for myself and my family and mankind. People are going DIE. That is eating me up alive!!! There are alot of people out there that feel the same. Then there are people that are friggin greedy that are going to use this to thier financial advantage. These people do not give a **** about the people that are going to die because of this. The only thing they care about is that we win so that thier stocks rise, they make money, and they live long enough to make more money and spend it. The greed. My mother is a Jehovah’s Witnesses and in the begining of my life she tried to get me to follow her, them. Although I say I am not religious. Her teachings have some what touched me and I am in a state of "I don't know". I think I am the way I am because of her and her effort to get me to follow. I don't want to get into more detail because you guyz might not like it and I dont know to much about it anyways. Sorry.

Score another one for overkill.

Overkill, you're scared. We all are... the difference being that you are rational enough to recognize that just because you're scared doesn't mean that we have to take measures that could get a lot of people killed. You say you don't follow politics, and that's fine; I kinda wish you did, though, because I think you would agree with my point of view, as controversial as it is.

I didnt enlist and am not drafted.....and I still get a gas mask and biosuits....hope brooklyn doesnt get gased or bombed....all i have to say...

I do understand CJ.

You guys wanna know something..... I have some friends in Kuwait now and one of my best friends will be there very very soon, when I can't say for security reasons. I've spoken to my friends and they are all scared, but they all believe in what we are doing and know what the risks are. I was talking with my really good friend that is leaving soon and he told me in one of those emotional drunken speaches about how he's scared he's going to lose his life and how he's gonna miss me and his family and everyone. He also said that he is ready to give his life to protect you guys everyone in the USA. Bush is taking care of things that should have never esculated to this point. North Korea is probally gonna be next on the list. If we don't stop them now who can say they won't use thir "wepons of mass destruction" This is the only way to do it. We all know that the inspections will not work. We're all scared, some more than others, some won't admit it. You guys know what I'm saying? Just trying to tell how it is from a service members standpoint. Maybe some of us hear more, know more about whats going on because it's our job and we're a part of OEF. I wish the world could just be a happy place so I could put my SC kit on...........................

944Freak, I am scared for your friends and hope they come back to you.

FTY, are you a cop? Wht do you do? Why did you get a BIO suit and mask?

You know, if my mother didn't introduce me to what they call the "truth",... to be honest, I would probably be out there with the soldiers. Then maybe not? I don't know. I am a very emotional person and I doubt that has anything to do with my being subjected to my mothers religion. Let's put it this way,... if I was never subjected to it there would be a good 50/50 chance that I would be out there with them. But then again, I am about whats right and I dont know enough about the politics to judge and even guess. CJ makes sence. The news makes sence once mated with what I some what know about Sadam. I am not at all scared to loose my life,... to help others. If we all live through this,... after I am done with nursing school, I want to volunteer as a firefighter or a rescue squad, I think I am shooting more towards a fire fighter though. I have no problem what so ever risking my life in situation like that. Saving people from burning buildings, car accidents, etc. You want to know what my role in all this? I want to be the fire fighter that died trying to save all those people in the twin towers that day on the 11th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is my job.

I hope that you and your friends will be okay over there, 944freak. You are right that things should have never gotten this far. I admire that you would be willing to give your life for what you believe in - I would be to, if I believed in what Bush is doing. But I don't. And that is where we differ.

But I do hope for nothing but the safety of our troops in the middle east, and if things do escalate to the point where there is an all-out war, you and all the soldiers serving overseas will be in my prayers.

Thanks CJ I understand your viewpoint as well.

Lets just hope there is no war, even though it doesnt look good. What is up with the soldiers BIO masks? There was this guy that called up the news station and told them that the masks were defective and were not going to work. He said the there is not engouh rubber where the mask meets the neck/ chin. When the soldier moves his mouth theres a seperation between skin and mask. I think he said he was in the Gulf War and that he is or was some specialist. Then there was this other guy that basically didnt fight the other guys facts. He said that this is not the time to bring something like that up. What kinda **** is that? All the technological advances we have and we can't design a full proof bio mask?

Live free or die. isn't that Delawars state moto?

Truth is just about all of you have valid points. Its about politics, oil, WOMD, terorism, economics, George's approval rating, and projecting American policy. There are alot of people and a lot of agenda's at play. Remember also the fundamental differences between Judeo/Christianity and Islam. There were the Crusades in the middle ages. We sent the Marines over there to rescue hostages in the 1800's. The Marine's still sing "from the halls of Montazuma to the shores of Tripoli". Tripoli is Lybia if I remember correctly. We sent the Navy to attack the Barbary Coast Pirates in the 1800's. We have a different view of basic human rights. The individual means little and women mean nothing in Islam. Our society is based on the rights of the individual. If we can not get along we can kick the living sh it outa them.

I do not want war and Islam, Judaisium, and Christianity are peacefull and do not teach hatered or violience. Its us human's who teach those qualities, and the greatest attrocities in history are caused by man. One of my favorite lines is form Dennis Leary "Where does hatered come from? Its not learned its tought. I have a 3 year old you know what he hates brocoli".

If people threaten my freinds and family I am really proud of the brave men and women that are willing do defend us. I wish them Gods speed and a safe return.

If one is not willing to die for their country because of some ideological disagreement with their government, then maybe the best place for that one is somewhere else living under another government that espouses their beliefs. The day I disagree with a military action that my government decides upon will be the day I leave this country. I would be a hypocrite to remain under the freedom provided by the stars and stripes.

Stephen

Thank You lambic2000, well said.
If you don't like what your govt. is doing, vote for someone else next time the elections roll around. It is your right.

Support your military. A very common line in YOUR military today is "I may not agree with a damn word you are saying, but I will fight to the death, for your RIGHT to say it.

One point everyone seems to be missing. It is not just the US in this it is the U.N. (United Nations). Who is the U.N. they are supposed to be the worlds police force. Pryor to Xmas they gave Suddam a warning and told him what would happen if he did not comply. Now what would happen if you were told by the police not to speed for 12 years without giving you a ticket?
Its the same thing here only bigger this thing should have been finished 12 years ago but the U.N. lost its testicles. Now we must act if we do not any smaller nation with an atitude will tell the U.N. to stick it were the sun don't shine, and then were will we be. As for Korea once the U.N. proves that it has the will it will back down.

As for myself I have 2 sons in the Australian Infantry Forces (AIF) and I would be devicetated if I lost even 1 of them. But if we (the U.N.) do not stop this now we may as well disband the U.N. build a wall around our respective countries and not talk to anybody on the other side of that wall.

Q. What good is a law without punishment?

A. Pandamonium


Barry
Proud to be Australian. Even prouder of my SONS

I hear the "why wouldn't you fight and die for your country?" argument from conservatives and supporters of the war effort a lot. The fact of the matter is that I would fight and die if I believed what the miltary forces were doing was right and good. I would be an enormous hippocrite if I denounced the actions of the Bush administration and then found myself in a desert with a M16 in my hands firing clip after clip into an "enemy" that I didn't even want to attack in the first place.

Please try to understand: I am not an anarchist or communist (though a lot of my friends are). I am simply a strongly-opinioned slightly pacifistic political junkie. Why not move to another country that supports my ideals? Because I love America, I love New England, I love this city of Boston, I love the area that I am originally from (central CT). So you might say, if you love it so much, why won't you give your life to defend it? I would, if I thought Sadam was as big a threat as everyone thinks he is. He isn't, right now... but we ARE backing him into a corner and he is getting desperate. Right now, we SHOULD be concentrating on cleaning up the factions of Tali ban forces and with trying to smooth things over with N. Korea as much as possible.

Oh, and as far as voting goes, I always vote... but seeing as I am from CT, my liberal vote is pretty much useless in the sea of other liberal votes - for the electoral college dictates that the CT vote goes to the Democrat, but there are more Republican territories this time around than Democratic ones. I think they should change the system - popular votes should be it, man.

Freedom of speach is one of the rights we have. If the goverment is doing something you do not belive in then speak out. Speaking against the goverment is not wrong. Remember womens sufferage, or the civil rights movment.

If you dont agree with the person who is speaking against the goverment you can speak up. You can tell them to leave the country if they dont appreciate it.

"We the people of the United States of America in order to form a more perfect union establish that all men are born with certian inailienable rights". Its a right that can not be taken away. Its not a privilage that can be handed out and later revoked because I dissagree with your oppinion. The question is not do you belive in the actions of the current administration? The question is do you belive in the principles that our country was founded on?

I belive that the middle east represents a great threat. That threat requires millitary action. Will war solve the problem? I doubt that it will. I do belive it will reduce the threat.

My respect and admiration to those who will fight to protect my rights. If not for them we would still be an English colony or maybe we would all be speaking Russian. God speed and a safe return.

My 2.5 Cents:
 

I have to throw in my 2.5 cents.

Is Saddam Hussein screwing his people really good? Yes.

Is Saddam lying to us about having WMD? Yes.

Does our administration really give a flying F&@K about that? No.

We know that Isreal has WMD, and we know that the Indians and the Pakistani's have them, too. We are relatively certain that several of the Balkan nations that were formerly Russian are selling the required componentry and knowledge for the manufacture of nuclear weapons. North Korea isn't even worth mentioning here.

Ask yourself, where is the money? Pakistan? North Korea? No. The money is in Iraq in the form of Oil. If there ever was a war that was perpetrated in the interest of money, none is as blatant as the one we are about to have in the Middle East.

We put Saddam there in the first place, and he hasn't changed a bit from the last time we were there.

That being said, I support the poor souls our government is going to employ for this "humanitarian" bloodbath. I will not degrade a member of my armed forces because of what is about to happen, because it is in the hands of the politicians in our country.

If you don't think Saddam is a threat or could become a threat to the United States either directly or indirectly, then your living in La La Land. Maybe you smoke pot a little more than you think you do. I respect dissent but not when it comes to our troops who continue to lay their lives on the line for our country despite where our country sends them or the reason therein. Also, don't you watch the news? A few days ago, Saddam ordered his top generals to use chemical weapons on any invading force. And, have you forgot that Saddam plotted the assassination of George Bush the Senior? If you don't think a leader of another country should be removed on the grounds of plotting assassinations on leaders or former leaders of another country, then you do believe in anarchy. Let me guess, you also believe that the foreign policy of the United States of America led to September 11th and somehow we are partly at fault?

Stephen

You really think that the world will just stand by and let the United States "steal" all of the oil in Iraq? Also, provide your proof that our government's intention is to "steal" all of the oil. You stated that it was blatantly clear that this war is perpetuated in the interest of money. Well, prove it. Since when did we put Saddam in power? That's a new one to me.

Stephen

to those who think u.s. motives are driven only by "oil", i have a question. what happened last time, twelve years ago, when we protected kuwait after saddam invaded it? did the u.s. steal her oil wells? saudi arabia is the largest exporter of oil, and is a neighbor of kuwait. what did we do to her oil?

<img src="http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/blackfoot/turbo_120%20lighter.jpg">