Cancelling contract with questionable roofer (NJ hailstorm damage)

[WIL84911]

Actually the situation is my dad’s and he’s asked for my help.

In a nutshell he wants out of the contract he signed with the roofer after verbally promising him he will make sure the insurance covers the full cost if the repair. But then he came back (past the 3 day cancellation window) stating insurance will not cover it 100%.

You think a lawyer might help? No money has changed hands yet.

Thanks peeps!

[M.D. Holloway]

Here in Tejas the roofing biz v. insurance is a game. The way it is done is to get a few solid estimates. Get the lowest one. Show him what the insurance is going to pay and say you are not looking to pay anything more then what the insurance will pay and sit back. No one in Tejas pays more then the insurance check. The roofer might balk and they might back away but we have countless companies and frankly roofs are replaced here about every few years so it doesn't matter if you get a 25yr, 30yr, or a 50yr. Let the roofer work it out with the insurance co. The roofers know the game.

But don't sign a darn thing unless the monies make sense and it is written down. Verbals are as good as the paper they are written on. That said, he should have gotten an estimate on what the insurance company was willing to pay out. You always do that prior to talking to anyone. When you get the insurance companies report on the damage and what they will cover take that as your specification.

Sounds like he talked to a roofer prior to understanding what the insurance co would pay him.

[WIL84911]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

....Sounds like he talked to a roofer prior to understanding what the insurance co would pay him.

Correct and signed the contract. Problem is roofer promised to make sure insurance will pay for it all but then came back saying no.

[stomachmonkey]

The insurance will pay it all, minus the deductible.

It's not legal for the roofer to promise to cover the deductible although they do, with a wink and a nod.

Like Mike said, it's a game.

Not sure about NJ but when a roofer acts as the GC, needs to bring in other trades like gutters, windows, fences, AC, they are allowed to charge 10% for profit and 10% for GC which is where they typically bury the deductible.

Not all insurers will pay it though. Farmers I know from going through it twice with them won't do it.

Now if the roofer is saying the actual costs (minus deductible) are higher than what insurance has estimated then it's the roofers job to work with insurance to get the additional monies justified / approved.

[javadog]

If no money has changed hands, I don't think the contract is worth much. Your dad should send the guy a letter saying that he wishes to void the contract, and why, and I would also encourage him to not let the roofer put any materials on the job in an attempt to get started. If the roofer is an honest guy, he'll just move on.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by javadog

...a letter saying that he wishes to void the contract, .

he HEREWITH voids the contract... not wishes to...

[javadog]

Good point

[M.D. Holloway]

I am in the middle of the process now with a roofer acting as a GC because the job requires roof, gutters, windows, glazing, and fence staining. Being in Norde Tejas it is customary to be seasoned in such consternation. we experience this sort of thing every few years. I do not know anyone who pays out of pocket of any work brought about by the weather here. You learn quick.

[M.D. Holloway]

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

I am in the middle of the process now with a roofer acting as a GC because the job requires roof, gutters, windows, glazing, and fence staining. Being in Norde Tejas it is customary to be seasoned in such consternation. we experience this sort of thing every few years. I do not know anyone who pays out of pocket of any work brought about by the weather here. You learn quick.

My adjuster told me about a woman in Copper Canyon who had a 10% deducible on a nearly 7k sq ft home.

She's going to be paying out of pocket as the entire roof / gutters / glass is less than her deductible.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

[nota]

fail to under stand why our roof tech is about 2500 years old
the romans used tile roofs

and with 185 mph storms we need way better ideas
even the metal thin steel roofs do NOT look to me to be enough for 185

one idea I may do soon
is a 3 layer plywood 3/4 each SCREWED AND GLUED ROOF with NO openings
my 1200sf roof would cost about 2500 in wood to add two layers with A/C PLY staggered seams
that way you get an effective plywood single piece roof that is waterproof and strong
maybe another 1000 to get the screws and glue and paint
that is how the high end Bahama homes are done and they survive 140-150 mph storms

but stupid local codes still want the unneeded tar paper and tile or even more un-needed
shingles on top of the sealed ply layers, just stuff that are proven to blow off over 120 or so winds
and need thousands of nails I would rather not have in a roof to rust and fail and leak

I would do the screw tops with a plug like an old wood boat hull to seal them
and use coated screws like a top-con for strength and rust resistance
then just paint the roof white to lessen heat transfer

[CurtEgerer]

Might also check your State laws on licensing. Some require the roofing contractor's door-to-door scammer - er, salesman - to be a licensed contractor not just an employee of a contractor. Contract could be void if it wasn't made with an actual contractor.

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

My adjuster told me about a woman in Copper Canyon who had a 10% deducible on a nearly 7k sq ft home.

She's going to be paying out of pocket as the entire roof / gutters / glass is less than her deductible.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

Those folks in Copper Canyon have bonfires with hundred dollar bills...we call that section of town 'Mahogany Row'.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Might also check your State laws on licensing. Some require the roofing contractor's door-to-door scammer - er, salesman - to be a licensed contractor not just an employee of a contractor. Contract could be void if it wasn't made with an actual contractor.

NJ big time. Make sure he is licensed, insured, has reg # on contract and advertising and pulls permits and inspections.

Pages - Regulated Business Section

confirm they are licensed here: https://newjersey.mylicense.com/verification_4_6/

No more than 2 roofs, but they really should remove old roof anyway, not roof over.

[WIL84911]

Thank you all.

[drcoastline]

I am in NJ, I am in the insurance, Real Estate and construction businesses. There are several ways you can deal with it.

First- If the relationship between your father/you and roofer is still amicable, talk to him. If work hasn't begun no reason he won't just oblige. He may have ordered materials and has a restocking fee so you may need to cover that cost. Probably not though most suppliers just take the materials back.

Second- There is a little known loophole in the three day clause that often doesn't make it into New Jersey construction contracts especially small contractors because they buy the boiler plate from Staples. The clause states the three day counting starts after the last party signs or when the contract is received which ever is later. Your dad can claim he never received a copy. Highly doubtful he was asked to sign a receipt he received a copy. How does the roofer prove he gave him a copy? A simple letter from a lawyer will stop this in it's tracks if the roofer pushes the issue. If he self represents he will loose. If he hires attorney he will give away all his profit and maybe then some.


If work has begun, it can get messy, you need to read the contract to see how you end it. That I can't tell you with out reading it.

PS- I am not a lawyer seek the advice of competent counsel.

Edit- cancelation is done in writing not verbal. No money changed hands, just say do not do the work. What's he going to do sue? Court will throw it out.

[WIL84911]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

I am in NJ, I am in the insurance, Real Estate and construction businesses. There are several ways you can deal with it.

First- If the relationship between your father/you and roofer is still amicable, talk to him. If work hasn't begun no reason he won't just oblige. He may have ordered materials and has a restocking fee so you may need to cover that cost. Probably not though most suppliers just take the materials back.

Second- There is a little known loophole in the three day clause that often doesn't make it into New Jersey construction contracts especially small contractors because they buy the boiler plate from Staples. The clause states the three day counting starts after the last party signs or when the contract is received which ever is later. Your dad can claim he never received a copy. Highly doubtful he was asked to sign a receipt he received a copy. How does the roofer prove he gave him a copy? A simple letter from a lawyer will stop this in it's tracks if the roofer pushes the issue. If he self represents he will loose. If he hires attorney he will give away all his profit and maybe then some.


If work has begun, it can get messy, you need to read the contract to see how you end it. That I can't tell you with out reading it.

PS- I am not a lawyer seek the advice of competent counsel.

Edit- cancelation is done in writing not verbal. No money changed hands, just say do not do the work. What's he going to do sue? Court will throw it out.

Thank you!!!! Unsuccessfully attempted cancelling the contract. No wirk has started and no materials gave been delivered.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by WIL84911

Thank you!!!! Unsuccessfully attempted cancelling the contract. No wirk has started and no materials gave been delivered.

So goes back to my question. What is the roofer going to do? Sue your dad? For what? The courts are a court of equity. The roofer would have to prove damages. So what would his damage be if he has not ordered material and hasn't started working? He isn't out anything so no damages. He could prove damages if he put money out to order materials and couldn't get a refund or if his guys tore your dads old roof off and he paid for disposal and their time.

Your dad may be in default of the terms but so what. Just tell the roofer thank you but insurance isn't paying and we can't afford to pay out of pocket.

[WIL84911]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

So goes back to my question. What is the roofer going to do? Sue your dad? For what? The courts are a court of equity. The roofer would have to prove damages. So what would his damage be if he has not ordered material and hasn't started working? He isn't out anything so no damages. He could prove damages if he put money out to order materials and couldn't get a refund or if his guys tore your dads old roof off and he paid for disposal and their time.

Your dad may be in default of the terms but so what. Just tell the roofer thank you but insurance isn't paying and we can't afford to pay out of pocket.

Will keep you posted. He had a big 80th BD party today. Thanks again.



Sent from my Tapatalk.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by nota

one idea I may do soon
is a 3 layer plywood 3/4 each SCREWED AND GLUED ROOF with NO openings
my 1200sf roof would cost about 2500 in wood to add two layers with A/C PLY staggered seams
that way you get an effective plywood single piece roof that is waterproof and strong
maybe another 1000 to get the screws and glue and paint

And how much do you think that weighs?

It's sincerely stupid.