Violating the 4th, Again
 

Safeguard your DNA. Once it's out there, you can NEVER get it back, and big brother can access it at their leisure. Even if a close family member has done this, you may be screwed.

Police can request your DNA from 23andMe, Ancestry | WJAX-TV

My point is that even if you haven't signed up, you may still have consequences.

I wonder if this also applies to studies where they ask you to submit a sample of saliva saying you will never be identified, and your sample will remain as part of a data pool.

Millions of people have handed their DNA over to genetic testing companies like Ancestry or 23andMe to learn more about their family trees.

I think these companies are just ridiculous and sucking people in.

Can we get Elizabeth Warren to try it?

Paranoia. A tin foil hat will protect you.

You think this is simply paranoia, really?

What is the difference in the government getting your DNA from a company or from them collecting it directly from you. The government still needs a warrant. I guess the former you pay for it and the latter the government pays for it.

I'm just asking, I would not give them my DNA.

both companies allow you to delete your DNA results.

Another classic, right alongside "The check is in the mail" "It's just a cold sore" and "Corporations will use the tax breaks to give workers raises"

They already have my DNA. I just assumed that it is a price to pay to become a citizen. There was a medical exam through a third party (drew blood), a fingerprint scan through a third party, a multitude of forms signed, at least one probably authorizing the disclosure of the results to the government, maybe even a clause to send samples over...

I guarantee if you’ve ever served, they have it already. Pretty soon it’ll be a selective service requirement to prove it’s really you (but of course you won’t even have to show an ID to vote lest the democrats lose their illegal immigrant “gimmee more free stuff” voting block).

If law enforcement has a warrant that is (usually) due process. If the customer did not opt to destroy their sample of will be held on to. Just like your search results, your social media profiles, etc.

Here's a good video talking about the process: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U3EEmVfbKNs

Not if one of these companies gets a "John Doe" (general) warrant. In other words, send the government all the DNA, they'll see if one matches anyone they are looking for...

Legally, that could not happen^^, as it's the classic example of a "fishing expedition. We can always argue that the "government" could do it anyway, but it is not part of due process and should be the topic of another thread. The government could send the name of a suspect, along with a warrant, and ask for the DNA profile. Or, it could send the profile it had from a suspect/crime and ask for identification, but that too would require a court order. These private companies are not part of the law enforcement data base that can be drawn upon at the whim of the government.

Having your genetic material "out there" doesn't necessarily mean your DNA can be identified. There are not too many facilities that keep blood samples or tissue samples indefinitely, and unless the DNA has been extracted and identified, those samples disappear. Do people really think that the blood taken when one is arrested for DUI is sent off to a lab for DNA analysis and the blood sample is kept forever? DNA analysis is expensive and time consuming--there are backlogs for it in most major jurisdictions. Law enforcement saves that process for serious investigations, not to build a data base of all people it encounters.

I'm sure there are situations where genetic material is kept, and DNA can be extracted from those at a later date. I'm not in the medical profession, but possibly hospitals and those undergoing surgery do have samples saved or DNA extracted--don't know--but even in those situations, HIPPA laws protect release of information without proper court authority.

Could the government abandon due process and get DNA from sources that have them? Of course, laws for protection are only good if they are respected. It's important that the public be aware of due process, and their privacy rights, to insure they are upheld. Allowing your DNA profile to be held by a private company does run risks--let's not forget hacking of data bases--but the risk of identification as a suspect in a crime rests with due process, if that due process is upheld and followed.

And that is a big "If."

Well, the government respects due process when it intercepts and stores all of my online communications. For that, a secret court issues general warrants to make it nominally "legal". (You know, just like the Constitution outlines. :rolleyes: )I'd expect the government to show the same respect for due process with DNA databases. There's no temptation for abuse there...

And the IRS could never discriminate against only certain political groups either. :rolleyes: YOu say they can't but tell me how many people have been charged with (no less, prosecuted) for doing this?

If you are all that worried, just change your DNA. Several factors can change your DNA, from drugs to diet, and even prolonged mental attitude. DNA is not the individual personal identification they claim it is. There are even medical treatments that in order to "cure" an illness modify your DNA.

If arrested for DNA evidence, make them take a new sample a prove a 100% match.

Lol

What do ya mean "Im Black?"

I don't really see this any different than having your picture taken.

Your soul is captured when you have your picture taken.

Sperm donors in our State were guaranteed that their identities would never be revealed & later, that any identifying information had been destroyed.
Last year the present government changed the rules. Bingo!! all the private data was still there so the donors could be located by their offspring.

On one level I feel sympathy for the young people wanting to find their bio father - however this is another example of why you shouldn't ever trust any bureaucrat with any more than minimum data; much less in the case of a for-profit company.

You can always trust the government.

I have not participated in this DNA stuff, but I don't condemn anyone that has nor would I call them foolish.

You want to see foolish, you can always read a PARF thread.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/945194-all-big-ancestry-sites-owned-mormons.html

Don't worry, your DNA is all safe, it's in a big cave.

What gets missed in these discussions is that Constitutional privacy has not generally applied to things that were shared with 3rd parties, the exception being conversations that were traditionally private (hence the wiretap laws). If you give something to some random company, there was never any Constitutional protection.

every time I see these commercials I wonder how a person can be so trusting. seems foolish to me.

its funny, people put their entire life on facebook or twitter, let advertisers track what websites they goto and you are worried about DNA?

I think everyones DNA should be on record.
it would help ID criminals and bodies that are found.

you need a drivers license? no need for SSN and birth cert, just go spit in a cup or pop one off, then a quick ID of the DNA and your done.
then they could put a chip in your forehead and then they just scan your head. you could even use that instead of a credit card.
after walmart scans all your groceries with that hand held scanner you just lean over they scan your head.

you could even get an ad on feature of GPS. you go missing? no problem.

People put more incriminating evidence on social media every day. The cops can get your DNA without a warrant by watching you and then grabbing your empty soda can or coffee cup or finished cigarette butt after you discard them. They can get pretty much anything with a warrant. They can haul you in, strap you down and forcibly draw blood if they have a warrant. Not sure I'm too outraged that companies comply with warrants and court orders.

Exactly.
The government was generally hampered to abiding by the 4A restrictions unless special provisions in the Patriot Act which allow the NSA (Total Informational Awareness Programs/Prisim/etc) or other domestic security agency, perhaps even foreign intelligence allies which are privy to this data mining tap, to act without needing any just cause or warrant, and if those agencies feel there is a need to investigate something further they can, using either intensive scrutiny or blanket fishing monitoring upon the general public.
..um..let me rephrase the above..
There are no longer any government restrictions using the 4A.

And if there were any 4A restrictions they would be easily skirted: It's a small step for the myriad of background applications within all wireless or RFID interconnected devices provided by social media companies such as Google/Facebook/etc to initially intercept the data instead, and then give those very same government surveillance programs 'an anonymous tip'. wink wink wink.

The customer signed up to be monitored.
How simple is that?
All it takes is to get people socially addicted to using these platforms all the time.

Third party contracts are just willing engagements anyways.
The relationship is only bound by a complex one-side EULA contract, with nullification of such the only legal recourse for the harmed individual.
"Oh yeah try to prove we torted any of yall little biatches and try to prove you've been damaged by us specifically. We at a higher level than tobacco. We worth billions and it's all proprietary or top secret. We got binders full of legal firms and the means to shadow-ban anything you say or sue you for libel."

A harmonious relationship benefiting both government and private industry.
And of course those big media companies (owned by certain types of people who were totally not involved in 9/11) would then be privy to the limitless wealth of military defense funding available for 3rd party subcontractors.
It's the big military-industrial business of big data.
That's where the real gub'mint gravy is at.
Selling phones is secondary.

I just don't anything that requires them to need my DNA or listen to my phone calls.

its kind of like getting shot by a cop, I just do what they say. don't run, don't be a threat and don't argue.

just a point of clarification here....when you guys say 'people put their lives on social media' not ALL people do that. some of us are not willing to participate in the likes of facebook and twitter and such.

This is social media right here.

and many times anti-social.

The tin foil hat brigade is amusing.

cute but I think most would see facebook and twitter to be considerably more dangerous in terms of exposing ones life to the masses. pretty sure you're smart enough to see the difference.

Ah, the old "if you have nothing to hide" argument.

When I read the article, I remembered your post LINK from last year where you were warning of the pitfalls of DNA testing.

Not sure how I feel about possible privacy violations, but glad they caught him.

If your are referring to the recent capture of the "Golden State Killer", that DNA connection was obtained through a public, open source, DNA site from which anyone can find possible familial connections from its database of voluntarily submitted DNA profiles. People who use the site do it for a reason--to find others who have similar DNA profiles to locate relatives. Everyone who uses it is conducting a fishing expedition in a public "pond" of DNA profiles. In this case, the police went fishing in the pond as well.

It is not like 23AndMe and others where access to other profiles would require a warrant indicating there was already a suspect but confirmation was needed.

Last year I got curious about the whole ancestry thing.

So I traced my ancestors back the early 1460 in England and Scotland.
I found my father's DNA results online, as well as two other individuals who's DNA was very, very close to his. One in tejas, one in Europe.
I found that I belonged in haplogroup 1-lineage with ISOGG long form I1, FTDNA short hand I-M253.
And i did all that in only a couple hours.

There is so much information out there on just about all of us it is boggling.
Our only hope at anonymity is that volume. Hopefully there will never be a reason to single us out of the crowd.

Being adopted, I thought briefly about going for the testing...then thought it might be best to let sleeping dogs lie. I'm pretty sure that not all birth family reunions are happy ones.

Have to admit, didn't think of the 4th amendment implications. Jeff's post makes me doubly glad I passed.

Meant to post my comment on the Golden State Killer thread...

It is quite possible, and even likely that the FBI already has a file on me. OTOH, my driving record is quite clean.

People are following you. They are also following me. I'm just not paranoid. The freedoms I enjoy are not an illusion, but they are limited. The irony of this situation is that the ones most willing to fight for personal freedom are often the most easily manipulated, and seem to have no real insight into the needs of future generations.

Thus we fail.

Being involved in energy production, international travel, along with my "spoon" hobby, I have had several FBI background checks. My fingerprints are all on file. Most recent set was for a TWIC card for working in refineries around the ports. - Full finger prints.

Knowing the issues with third parties holding data, and the lax requirements by the US governement to get third party data, I store my data on local servers. As the DNA industry was getting started, I always thought that information would be easily available with a simple warrant. And since it is held by a third party, there is no pesky need to inform YOU that your data was collected.

Nope, not going to voluntarily give my DNA data to a third party, who will then keep it on file.