Paypal/eBay fraud - and surprising resolution

[McLovin]

I sold an item on eBay for $300 (first time I've sold on eBay in a couple of years).

Buyer paid by PayPal.

On that same day, I sent by FedEx. I took a picture of the package, and the FedEx generated shipping label.

It took about a week to get to him (cross-country by ground). During that time, he sent me a couple of messages through ebay asking when he might get it. I responded it would take around a week.

It was delivered and signed for. Within an hour of delivery, to further confirm that he got it (I'm suspicious of everyone), I sent him a message through ebay, telling him it had been delivered.

That same day, he sent a message back confirming.

Three weeks later, I get an email from Paypal saying the funds have been taken out of my account and are on hold because he claims he didn't receive the item!

Plainly, a fraud. Per the Paypal resolution process, I sent him a message telling him all of the above. As I expected, no response.

So I did the "Escalate dispute to Paypal" option, where you send your side of the story to PayPal. I sent a long, detailed message outlining all of the above (tracking number, signature, confirmation on eBay messaging, etc.)

Here's the surprising part. Within 2 minutes (maybe 1 minute) of my hitting send, I received an email from Paypal saying the claim had been resolved in my favor. I checked by Paypal account and the money was put back.

I guess I'm not surprised I won, but how could it possibly have been resolved in a minute or two??

[T77911S]

I am surprised you got your money back.

I would also check your bank account, on a different computer, and verify

[drkshdw]

Any time a seller has a tracking number and the tracking indicates the package was delivered, the seller keeps the money. If the item is more than $250, a signature is required. If all these things checked out, there is nothing the buyer can dispute.

Most of these types of cases are decided by the system, not a person, which is why it was so quick. You did all you were supposed to do so there was nothing more you could do to get the package to him. It's on him if he didn't get it (and you would probably be out the money if you didn't have him sign for it).

[sammyg2]

But the DB who tried to rip you off still needs a spanking.
THAT would be closure

[javadog]

You may not be out of the woods yet. He can dispute the charge through his credit card company, if he used a card to pay for it. If he does, look for a PayPal to hit your account for that money without warning.

I'm currently fighting a worthless little **** weasel in New Jersey who's trying to scam me out of about 100 bucks. I prevailed with eBay and PayPal, but then he complained to his credit card company, so here we go again. I am 60 days in, with no resolution yet. Up to 75 or 80 days can pass to get to a resolution. The facts completely support my position, I just don't have faith that there will be an actual intelligent human with common sense rendering judgment.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by McLovin

I sold an item on eBay for $300 (first time I've sold on eBay in a couple of years).

Buyer paid by PayPal.

On that same day, I sent by FedEx. I took a picture of the package, and the FedEx generated shipping label.

It took about a week to get to him (cross-country by ground). During that time, he sent me a couple of messages through ebay asking when he might get it. I responded it would take around a week.

It was delivered and signed for. Within an hour of delivery, to further confirm that he got it (I'm suspicious of everyone), I sent him a message through ebay, telling him it had been delivered.

That same day, he sent a message back confirming.

Three weeks later, I get an email from Paypal saying the funds have been taken out of my account and are on hold because he claims he didn't receive the item!

Plainly, a fraud. Per the Paypal resolution process, I sent him a message telling him all of the above. As I expected, no response.

So I did the "Escalate dispute to Paypal" option, where you send your side of the story to PayPal. I sent a long, detailed message outlining all of the above (tracking number, signature, confirmation on eBay messaging, etc.)

Here's the surprising part. Within 2 minutes (maybe 1 minute) of my hitting send, I received an email from Paypal saying the claim had been resolved in my favor. I checked by Paypal account and the money was put back.

I guess I'm not surprised I won, but how could it possibly have been resolved in a minute or two??

I'm pretty shocked that you got your money back. There are way too many wankers running around out there.

[Eric at Pelican Parts]

I'm actually really surprised you got your money back as well. I sent a $950 package to a customer, he received and signed for it... then a few days later he files a claim saying he never got it. Even after providing the tracking number, an image with his signature, and all the emails back and fourth he still won. After that I stopped using ebay.

[Evans, Marv]

I have reduced my use and exposure to Ebay to very near zero for the reasons discussed in this thread. I used to use Ebay a lot some years ago, but it seemed like things were going down hill rapidly. Discussions like this continue to reinforce my suspicions.

[RANDY P]

You have to follow all the rules to a Tee. Use the Ebay system to buy the postage, over $100 gets adult signature required by me, end of story. I don't care if you won't be home or not, you sign for it, no exceptions.

I plainly put that in the descriptions of everything I sell. Had a few request otherwise because "not home much!"- too bad.

With higher end goods, I also document what I can showing the item works fully- Sold Macbook a few years ago to some chick who got it and then figured she got ripped off- tried to tell Ebay it was defective and wouldn't boot, etc. etc.

Problem for her was, I had a PHOTOGRAPH of the results of a system check done by the Apple store, with it clearly showing the date, and "No problems found"- the pic was in the initial listing.

She lost, of course.

I photograph and show all Serial #'s, pics of item working, on and on.

I had one instance where I bought an defective amplifier from a guy who claimed otherwise, some POS scammer who trashes everything he owns. I complained it was DOA, he said I tampered with it, Paypal tried to hold me to it, until I proved his claim was false, so Ebay let me keep the item and I didn't have to pay. Got a refund because the seller raised hell. Ebay wound up eating the whole deal.

I got to leave one hell of a negative feedback tho on the guy.

Ebay has been good to me over the years, but it's all because of good CYA.

rjp

[mepstein]

A lawyer friend of mine once told me - The person who documents the most, wins. I've found it to be true more often than not.

[McLovin]

I think I got a little lucky, in the guy claimed he never received it. That was easy to disprove.

After this happened, I googled other ebay/paypal scams. Some seem much more difficult.

For example, the buyer admits receiving it, but says that instead of a $1500 computer in the box, there was a brick.

How are you, as the seller, going to disprove that? You could have all the pictures and documents in the world, but none definitively prove that you didn't switch out the computer for the brick at the last minute. It's his word against yours.

A variation on that is the buyer claims it wasn't as represented, and wants to return it. Then instead of sending the computer back, HE sends the brick to you! Now he has a tracking number showing you received the "returned" computer.

The lesson I take from my experience is I'm not going to sell anything on eBay (and take paypal) that I'm not willing to get stiffed on.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Number ONE-
PAYPAL is NOT your PAL.
If you use any other CC you will resolve all issues pretty EZ.
That is the only way to buy on ebay. (reg CC)
PayPay sucks.'
They once took 900 bucks out of my bank for no reason.
GONE with no recourse to this day.
That was back in the day when they demanded a certain amount of cash in there at all times.

If this is true then how can they get away with it?

I'm trying to imagine what I wouldn't do if PayPal took $900 from me. They'd have a war on their hands!

[Mad Max]

I am having an issue where the tracked item shows delivered but customer claims never arrived. Told him to ask his postal carrier for the part. Luckily it was a low buck item and I have two more but I told him no more shipping until after the holidays. Thanks USPS.

[LWJ]

Here is a real time question. My MIL ordered something for my daughter off Amazon. I am convinced it is fraudulent in that the product was never shipped.

Many promises. No product.

How can I burn this guy down?

Thanks!

[LWJ]

Called the crook. Scared him bad. Instant refund. Sort of,fun. But now my kid doesn't have a Christmas gift...

[tabs]

U boyz are victims.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Number ONE-
PAYPAL is NOT your PAL.
If you use any other CC you will resolve all issues pretty EZ.
That is the only way to buy on ebay. (reg CC)
PayPay sucks.'
They once took 900 bucks out of my bank for no reason.
GONE with no recourse to this day.
That was back in the day when they demanded a certain amount of cash in there at all times.

That is why my paypal is not linked to a bank account. Credit card only. I use that card for internet purchases only. If it gets compromised I have 2 other cards that I live on.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by mepstein

A lawyer friend of mine once told me - The person who documents the most, wins. I've found it to be true more often than not.

its the one that complains first that wins.


long story short.
neighbor called to the police on me and lied about the situation but in the officers eyes, even though I admitted to the truthful part, I was considered "guilty".

for those that have been divorced, who wins, the one that files first. well really no winners.

look at women that have used "my ex abused the kids" and the man is guilty until he proves he is innocent. if the man did that first, the women would be guilty until proven. I have seen it first hand.

[Rick Lee]

I recently had a guitar for sale on eBay. Buyer messaged me and asked if I'd take less for it. I asked where he lived. Turns out he lived right on my way to LA, where I was driving in three days. I told him, if we could do the hand off in person, thereby saving me the $50 shipping, I'd take his offer. We agreed and I accepted his offer via eBay. Then I realized that I'd have no proof of third party shipping and he could file a claim with PayPal after I had met with him. I called him to get a feel and he seemed pretty legit. We met at a gas station on I-10 and he seemed happy as a clam. He immediately left me positive feedback with the words "nice meeting you" and I never heard about it again. That was a month ago.

[legion]

Originally Posted by javadog

You may not be out of the woods yet. He can dispute the charge through his credit card company, if he used a card to pay for it. If he does, look for a PayPal to hit your account for that money without warning.

I'm currently fighting a worthless little **** weasel in New Jersey who's trying to scam me out of about 100 bucks. I prevailed with eBay and PayPal, but then he complained to his credit card company, so here we go again. I am 60 days in, with no resolution yet. Up to 75 or 80 days can pass to get to a resolution. The facts completely support my position, I just don't have faith that there will be an actual intelligent human with common sense rendering judgment.

Yep, I've seen this before. This is why when I had PayPal it was linked to a special Paypal-only account that I cleared out after I got the money.

After I sold my 944, I decided to sell some of the parts I had laying around on eBay. I literally had 7 auctions and ended up having problems with two of them.

1) My auctions all had flat shipping charges. I clearly stated that I would only ship within the U.S. I had a low-value part that was going to sell for around $15 with something like $5 flat shipping. I kept getting winning bids from someone from Germany. I figured out that it was going to cost me something like $50 to ship the part to him--I'd LOSE $30. I would contact the guy and tell him I only shipped in the U.S. and cancel his bid. 5 minutes later, he'd bid again and never reply. I barred him from bidding on my auctions. He finally finds the reply button and I got a profanity-laced tirade.

2) My auctions all had flat shipping charges. One of the people that I sold to (who happened to be a Pelican--he contacted me during the auction to let me know this) filed a dispute with eBay claiming that I overcharged him for shipping. Here's the kicker--my flat rate for that item was $15 and it cost me $14.98 to ship it to him. I ended up refunding him $0.02 because it wasn't worth my time to go through the dispute process even though my auction clearly stated that there was a flat shipping charge of $15 on the item.