Why eight iq points now when you’ve said five for so long? And why not be accurate and state that fact only holds true in those that abuse mj at an early age (lower than proposed legal consumption ages). I don’t see any body supporting abuse in underaged users, so that “fact” is one of little relevance.
As to medical, like almost any subject you could find a plethora of studies to support or deny its medical uses. What I know is that cancer patients find relief from its use, and don’t just use that as an excuse for abuse. I have seen its effect on ms patients first hand and it is astounding.
Bs the scheduling is not political, it is lawmaking, all lawmaking is political by definition. You have not disproved any “origin” story as bunk to my satisfaction surely, and I have read much on the subject that supports the political and financial drives behind the ban.
You are one of the few here that does not see the relevance of alcohol legislation as it relates to mj. You are very ignorant of many of the facts surrounding MJ and a myriad of the other subjects you purport to have knowledge of in this board and display an extreme degree of arrogance in your posts.
It’s an argument you will lose as it will inevitably be federally legalized in good time.

It depends on the study and the sample. The NZ study says 8 (8 points is from average to dumber than dirt):
https://today.duke.edu/2012/08/potiq

"About 5 percent of the study group were considered marijuana-dependent, or were using more than once a week before age 18. A dependent user is one who keeps using despite significant health, social or family problems.

At age 38, all of the study participants were given a battery of psychological tests to assess memory, processing speed, reasoning and visual processing. The people who used pot persistently as teens scored significantly worse on most of the tests. Friends and relatives routinely interviewed as part of the study were more likely to report that the persistent cannabis users had attention and memory problems such as losing focus and forgetting to do tasks.

The decline in IQ among persistent cannabis users could not be explained by alcohol or other drug use or by having less education, Moffitt said.

While 8 IQ points may not sound like a lot on a scale where 100 is the mean, a loss from an IQ of 100 to 92 represents a drop from being in the 50th percentile to being in the 29th, Meier said. Higher IQ correlates with higher education and income, better health and a longer life, she said. "Somebody who loses 8 IQ points as an adolescent may be disadvantaged compared to their same-age peers for years to come," Meier said."

That is exactly what I posted.

But throughout this thread it has been volunteered that it is easier buy than bubblegum. You made a big point that you could buy it on Craigslist anywhere in the nation because you knew the secret code words. sounds like it is accessible to kids now...and legalization will only increase availability...just as it has in CO.

No one said it had no possible medical use...however, if you can find a current study that says it is harmless...please post it. Remember, the schedule is assigned depending upon the drug’s acceptable medical use and the drug’s abuse or dependency potential.

What exactly does alcohol have to do with marijuana? If you "see" relevance, why can't you tell us what it is? I am waiting. Are you claiming that using both together is healthy/safer? LOL.

Legalizing MJ is just another way to separate the poor and their money...just like cigarettes, cheap beer and lottery tickets:
https://nypost.com/2016/08/20/legalized-pot-is-making-americas-lower-class-poorer-and-less-responsible/

The best way is the lottery. Selling that dream of mega payouts. The lottery is just a tax on math challenged idiots. I am sure more than a few have spent all their welfare money on lottery tickets, beer or booze, cigarettes, and junk food.

I remember my days of living paycheck to paycheck. I ate a lot of rice and potato soup that I made at home. I was spending less that 25 cents per day on food. No dating, no cable TV. I saved enough in two years to put a down payment on a house. My social life sucked, but it was better than living in a crappy apartment.

I have wasted a lot of money on beer in my life, but it was all money I had earned at a job.

Uh...Are they not both psychoactive drugs?

Long-term/heavy usage of either can have negative side effects, including death (in the case of alcohol) and ruining you and/or your family's life. Both have some potential benefits. One is grouped along with Heroin, Coke, Meth, Crank, Crack, etc. The other sponsors the Superbowl.

I can't fathom how one can be so rigidly opposed to legalization of MJ, yet so willing to declare a cease fire in the war on drugs vis-à-vis alcohol. You must agree that prohibition should be reinstated. We need to make booze illegal to protect the children and poor, right?

In an earlier post you expressed concern about massive amounts of money being spent effectively "advertising" pot. Meanwhile you are unconcerned about BILLIONS of dollars being legally spent marketing booze because:

"I am pretty sure they are advertising legal product to an audience of legal age...but at least they are not touting it as medicinal and harmless."

Surely no-one of less than legal drinking age sees TV commercials of how great life is when you're partying with Bud Light, or Johnny Black. True that its not touted as medicinal, but there is nothing in the marketing of booze that warns of its highly addictive properties and ability to destroy lives and families. With cigarettes we're at least getting some honesty...nothing like the honesty you get in Europe where there are absolutely disgusting photos of diseased lungs on every pack of smokes.

To me booze and gambling is way more distructive than MJ. Same with opiods legal or not.

I know many who use or have used MJ recreationally and are very successful both in biz and their relationships. A large percentage do not drink or gamble.
I personally know the CEO of a very successful company that partakes in his down time.
I also have a HS buddy who was a stoner, quit when he became a cop. Now retired he has many many problems from injuries playing and coaching FB and has taken to MJ for pain. His POV is it's better than using percocet.

So the legality of one has nothing to do with the legality of the other.
i have not made any argument to make alcohol legal. Are you making the argument to make it illegal. Making rape legal because murder is worse does not seem like a wise idea. If alcoholism as bad as you claim and MJ is simply not quite so bad...why would you want to add another? One intoxicant is not enough?

One is legal and the other is not. It seems that massive advertising to commit a crime is a bit worse than doing so for a legal substance. Most of the MJ propaghanda misrepresents the dangers and safety of the substance. I do not see anyone doing so with cigarettes or alcohol.

I see a big difference between companies not actively advertising well know dangers of their product and ones who constantly produce/distribute false information misrepresenting the danger of theirs. Don't you?

So is your point that booze, gambling and legal pain killers should all be made illegal because you deem them worse than MJ...or are you making the case that anything you deem less bad than something legal should also be made legal (regardless of the dangers or new problems created)?

I think it more likely that he's making a point that's lost on no one here (well, almost no one).

_

What would that be?

There aren't any poor people buying weed at $400 a ounce. This is the same stupidity that believes people will buy weed candy at skyhigh prices and then give it away at Halloween.

You might also want to point out nobody is trying to legalize murder with chainsaws.
Also nobody is trying to rename the planet from Earth to rock #2.:rolleyes:

Apparently they do buy it. I can't believe you are claiming that only the wealthy and successful smoke pot. LOL.

Did you choose not to read the article I posted citing the RAND study:

"But legalization and our growing cultural acceptance of marijuana have disproportionately affected one group in particular: the lower class.

A recent study by Steven Davenport of RAND and Jonathan Caulkins of Carnegie Mellon notes that “despite the popular stereotype of marijuana users as well-off and well-educated . . . they lag behind national averages” on both income and schooling.

For instance, people who have a household income of less than $20,000 a year comprise 19 percent of the population but make up 28 percent of marijuana users."

So to cons, people making $250k a year are middle class and poor people spend $400 bucks a month on weed. Right

If you have $400 bucks a month to smoke into thin air I doubt you're poor at all.

If they could afford to spend huge amounts their habits they would not be poor. Most folks earn more than $400 per month...If 28 percent of users make $20K per year or less...that is $1667 per month. They have over a grand left each month to give their mom for letting them love in her basement. The ones who make less can just stiff their mom on the rent a bit.

Can we send this thread to PARF yet?

Pot And Reefer Forum...here we come...

Obama never exhaled :)

Has it become too religious or political? I hear that some of the new, more potent strains will make one see God...almost like windowpane was said to do. Is that true?

I recently did a short term, full time but temporary job for Boulder County. They did a pre-employment drug test on me. They stated up front that they did NOT test for pot....

^disagree. drugs are drugs. laws should reflect common sense and a consistent approach. I happen to believe that with respect to MJ, it should be legalized/decriminalized and we should treat it similar to alcohol. This means strict rules and controls regarding age of possession and purchase, operating motor vehicles, advertising and marketing, etc.

Are you being purposely obtuse? Two wrongs don't make a right? This is your rationale?


Of course I see the difference...however, I also know that many more BILLIONS of dollars are spent promoting alcohol than are spent promoting MJ. I don't see any MJ advertising during the Superbowl do you? Furthermore, alcohol marketing NEVER shows you the potential risks of using their product, does it. That's all ok by you because its legal. You claim to want to protect the youth and poor from the scourge of MJ, but you're ok with the status quo with respect to alcohol. That sure sounds like hypocrisy to me.

Does it smell as good when growing as it does when in the bag?

I do love the scent in the bag. Love the smoking smell as well.

Just can't smoke it without 1/2 hour of paranoia. Never liked that part so I don't.

Wow, you actually LIKE that rancid stink. Amazing. Do you like burning insulation and old dirty socks smell as well. I have always hated that stinky smell of a joint. It is even worse than a cigarette or cigar ashtray on a humid day in a car when the sun comes out after a rain. Barf.

Too expensive for a joint. A couple of one hitters do the job and saves money!

I yam what I yam.

The shiet sniffs good to me.

Don't smoke it but love sniffin' it.

That crap isn't mine. I was being flip. I lifted the pics from the internet. One puff and I'm so paranoid I have to lock myself in a closet with an A/R.

I haven't read the whole thread, but there's a pot farm down the road from me. Not that it's a big deal to me, there was a pot farm down the road when I was in college. A big one, 7 acres, on the Ole Miss campus.

Texas is not following the lead of other states without caution, but will ultimately defend what is known as our Compassionate Care Act. What we have aimed to do is help those which suffer from epileptic seizures. It's the right thing to do, and enough for now. I can't imagine the feds coming after Texas. I do, however, foresee the feds going after blew states.

Fintstone, change locations, man.

Shoot man, skunk road kill makes my mouth water craving Doritos!

^funny stuff

Now that marijuana is legal in California, you should understand the health risks
Ron Reece
Cannabis may be legal now in California, but is still unhealthy
As of Jan. 1, 2018, California’s “gold rush” or “green rush” is on. The passing of Prop. 64 legalized the recreational use of marijuana for those over 21.

Being a physician, believing in evidence-based medicine, what positive or negative health effects of marijuana are well studied?

The Shasta County Public Health Department Provider Spring 2017 bulletin points us to such a resource, the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine 2017 report "The Health Effects of Cannabis and Cannabinoids: The Current State of Evidence and Recommendations for Research."

The full report, available at nap.edu, organizes cannabis health effects as conclusive evidence, substantial evidence, moderate evidence, limited evidence and no evidence based upon the quality or lack of quality of scientific studies available. With the usage of marijuana products predicted to increase, additional quality scientific studies will be assembled to support or refute the advantages or disadvantages of marijuana.

I will concentrate on the National Academy of Sciences’ conclusive evidence, substantial evidence and moderate evidence on cannabis usage.

Respiratory disease: There is substantial evidence of a statistical association between cannabis smoking and worsening respiratory symptoms and more frequent chronic bronchitis episodes. Cessation of cannabis smoking will improve respiratory symptoms.

Injury and death: There is substantial evidence of a statistical association between cannabis use and increased risk of motor vehicle crashes. There is moderate evidence between cannabis use and the increase risk of overdose injuries, including respiratory distress, among pediatric populations in the U.S. states where cannabis is legal. (Keep cannabis and cannabinoids products away from children.)

Prenatal, perinatal and neonatal exposure: There is substantial evidence of a statistical association between maternal cannabis smoking and low birth weight of the offspring.

Psychosocial: There is moderate evidence of a statistical association between cannabis usage and the impairment of learning, memory and attention (acute cannabis use).

Mental health: There is substantial evidence of a statistical association between cannabis use and the development of schizophrenia or other psychoses, with the highest risk among the most frequent users. There is moderate evidence of a statistical association between cannabis use and increased symptoms of mania and hypomania in individuals diagnosed with bipolar disorders (regular cannabis use). Moderate evidence shows an increase incidence of suicidal ideation and suicide attempts with a higher incidence among heavier users, an increase in suicide completion and an increase in incidence of social anxiety disorder (regular cannabis use).

Problem cannabis use: There is substantial evidence that being male and smoking cigarettes are risk factors for the progression of cannabis use to problem cannabis use. Initiating cannabis use at an earlier age is a risk factor for the development of problem cannabis use. There is moderate evidence that during adolescence the frequency of cannabis use, oppositional behaviors, a younger age of first alcohol use, nicotine use, parental substance use, poor school performance, antisocial behaviors and childhood sexual abuse are risk factors for the development of problem cannabis use. There is moderate evidence of a statistical association between cannabis use and the development of other substance dependence and abuse including alcohol, tobacco and other illicit drugs.

Therapeutic effects: There is conclusive or substantial evidence that cannabis or cannabinoids are effective for the treatment of chronic pain in adults (cannabis); effective for treatment of chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting (oral cannabinoids) and effective treatment for improving patient-reported multiple sclerosis spasticity symptoms (oral cannabinoids). There is limited evidence supporting the usage of marijuana for anxiety symptoms of public speaking or improving symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorders. There is little or no evidence cannabis or cannabinoids are effective treatment for cancer, symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome, epilepsy, motor system symptoms associated with Parkinson’s disease, or achieving abstinence in the use of addictive substances.

As with tobacco products the “gold rush” is on for those who grow, process and sell marijuana. The concentration of cannabis and cannabinoids in products are now at their highest, meaning rapid addiction and problem cannabis use present real threats to our community. Contrary to tobacco law, Prop. 64 allows advertising of marijuana on primetime TV when children watch. Marijuana products sold as gummy bears and brownies have already increased ER visits for children in Colorado. There are few medical indications for the appropriate use of marijuana; however, for most, marijuana will be “fool’s gold”.

Make it a New Year’s resolution to educate your family about the health risks of marijuana.

Can't you smell that smell?

The neighborhood behind my back fence has a street next to my fence to give everyone back access to garages. Was mowing along one day and smelled that smell. Turned off my mower and took a big wiff to make sure. Made the comment out loud..."That smells like pot!" Almost immediately a V8 hot rod on the other side of the fence roared to life and burnt rubber leaving. Struck me as funny and almost fell over laughing.

About this time last year one of my neighbors put a big shipping canister on an undeveloped area of his 5 acre property. His property backs up to a seldom used (accept by Tank and me every AM) hiking/horse trail that runs an easement between two properties leading to the hills. The canister is about 30 feet off the trail.

One morning I noticed digging was done overnight and some PVC pipe cuttings scattered around. A couple mornings later there was an open trench running from the canister toward the house. The next day, it's filled in and a hum is coming from the canister with a big padlock on the door. All this is being done at night :confused: I made the assumption he was growing weed in there. Hell, what do I care.

I don't know they guy at all, but after about a month I see him parked down by the canister with his truck. I laughed and said..."Hey Neighbor, whatcha growing in there?" He snapped back at me..."It's just furniture!".

Two days later...The canister is gone! I s#it you not! Within a month the house was for sale. I swear to God. The new neighbor is a fire department engineer with a nice young family and a golden retriever. I feel bad that I sparked the stoners paranoia so badly he had to move...But I sure like the upgraded neighbors.

Yep, just follow the money. They are actually putting up billboards across CA to convince people that legalizing MJ is harmless:

"Sales were expected to hit $10 billion nationwide in 2017 and grow with the legalization of marijuana in California at the start of this year.

In a report issued before Sessions’ announcement of a change in federal policy – the effect of which is not yet determined – BDS Analytics forecast that marijuana sales in California alone could total $3.7 billion this year and $5.1 billion next year."

Cheers

Long long ago in my single days like a lot of single guys I had some buddies I hung out with. I saw a real change in one guys personality. He went from easy going to paranoia and a real hate for cops. I know he started growing pot in his back yard because I saw it. I just removed myself from his association of friends.

About three years later I saw a TV news report of the cops arresting him and hauling of a bunch of pot plants. I don't know how long he was in for but a few years later I saw him again in a store. We exchanged howdys and chatted a minute. He was just a totally different man from the easy going relaxed dude I used to know. I have no idea if his is still involved with pot but it was obvious to me he was not the guy I wanted to know anymore.

Are you under the impression that this is not a political discussion?

So what if you live in a legal state, have a prescription, but work for the gubmint? Can you partake?

Not if you don't want to be fired...or possibly even imprisoned.

Nope

If you work for the government you will be under federal law. Just like the VA

I would say the topic is not inherently political (and certainly not partisan/party politics) although politics are interjected throughout the thread.

My observation is that typically an OT thread is deemed "political" when someone posts a strong argument that they disagree with.