Serious question about Manual Transmissions
 

So my brother is contemplating the purchasie of a new Cayman or 718 with manual trans that he will keep a min. of 5 and a max. of 10 years. He asked me a question that really got me to thinking: will having a a manual transmission hurt the resale in the future? Cuz let’s face it - even though many of us see the stick as highly desirable, there’s a reason why so many PDK’s are now sold – fewer and fewer people know how to drive a stick anymore.

That’s gotta limit potential buyers, yes?

Any thoughts appreciated!

It might have a nostalgic appeal?

Good question.

The folks that purchase brand new Porsches are a bit different demographic than those buying a 10 or 20 year old Porsche.

Enthusiasts and collectors mostly prefer manuals. Look at the difference in prices between manual and tip 964 and 993 (the first 911s where autos were common). The very last manual trans Ferraris command a premium over the same cars with an auto.

Now, the PDK has been very popular over a Tip but they are also quite pricey to make right when they fail.

Possibly. People today think of SMG as ' manual', but may scoff at an actual manual trans. I would suggest him buying what he wants if it's new, less worry about resale later.

A 10 year old manual trans will be more reliable than a 10 yo PDK, IMO

The question I would ask is even if the resale goes down and I doubt it will, will he get more enjoyment out of driving the manual during those 5+ years than it might cost in resale?

Honestly, the rarity of a manual will probably make it worth more.

It may become a historic collectable ;)

Which would you rather buy from him in 5-10 years? That's what I would talk my brother into.....

Any answer that you might arrive at is pure speculation. I'd rather buy what I want to drive and not worry about some future potential price hit that probably wouldn't be more than $2-3k in today's dollars. It's not like the car will be impossible to sell... unless IC vehicles are banned, in which case you're hosed either way.

A few years ago I was listening to a local DC car show called Goss’ Garage.

He is also on Motorweek: Goss' Garage | MotorWeek

His basic point about manual transmissions was that auto companies are not investing a lot of R&D funds in improvements, focusing on the real market, automatic transmissions.

I would not buy anything new with a manual transmission unless it was a dedicated fun car.

All that said, ten years from now manuals could be the hip thing. My son is in his first year of law school and his 2000 Tacoma with a five speed manual is a big hit.

He has taught three classmates how to drive it. Who knew?

this falls into the "should I do this to my car" category I see on Technical all the time. My answer is simple: It's always best to get the transmission that the next owner will love driving. or in other cases: It's always prudent to save your car for the next owner.

And of course, always paint your car the favorite color of the next owner.

like

Theft prevention.

Exactly, just look at the data. Used Porsches with manual transmissions carry a huge premium. Just look at the 997 GT3 4.0, 911R, and the new GT3 manual. 993 values are crazy, but I'd say that the tiptronic are a good 25% cheaper. Enthusiast buyers buy used, and enthusiasts still prefer a manual.

If he is thinking of down the road re-sale value, who is going to want a down the road old Porsche?

It is going to be a car enthusiast, and one that is likely shopping for an older car with a manual transmission.

Not disagreeing because you're right about the 993s and 964s but one thing to consider is that the PDK is in a different category than the old Tiptronic in terms of enthusiast appeal. I personally think that there will not be a big difference in resale value but the PDKs are already in hugely bigger demand, probably 20:1 across the entire Porsche sports car line.

I have a couple friends w 991 manuals, actually one already traded or sold his and it definitely had reduced resale value w manual. This will only get worse w time, IMO.

That said, if someone can afford a new Porsche and is worried about a few dollars in resale value years from now, their head isn't on straight. :cool:

My last P-car and all of them in future will be Tips. I'm done with manuals.

I had an interesting discussion about manual vs automate E39 BMWs this past weekend: it seems 6MT's are getting easier to find, as the automatics crapped out and it wasn't worth it to fix them so they got scrapped.

He's def an enthusiast - owns a 64C and a SWT - but I thought it was an interesting question. At least, not one I'd thought of before.

Thanks for all the input - appreciate the range of opinions.

But the car you want, not the one you think the next guy will want. IOW who gives a fig about resale value anyway? I buy cars to drive and enjoy - for me, not someone else.

Personally I love manual transmissions and get bored with autos / quasi-autos but that’s just me.

Follow that same thought...if he's concerned about resale, then he better buy it with EVERY freaking bell and whistle that they have. Having just looked at used cars, it's obvious that the only ones that sell are the ones with every single option box checked.

That means that we were able to get our new car for several thousand under average, because it had sat on lots for 6 months. Why? Mostly, because 5 speed. And, it wasn't loaded to the gills with worthless electronic crap.

If he is buying for resale, he should get a rare model, a special model.
You know everyone wants certain editions.

Otherwise, I think there will still be a market for a stick.

I know the PDK is a big step up over the Tiptronic, but you still see the premium in the newer cars. The 997 GT3 4.0 was trading for double MSRP because everybody thought it was the last manual GT3. The 911R is crazy expensive. The new GT3 with a manual has a huge wait list. If you can even find a 991 with a stick, they carry a premium in the used market.

But I totally agree that picking certain options for resale value is a waste of time. Pick what you want and enjoy it, very few cars would count as good investments.

I'd buy the car I want to own and drive.

At resale time? I can't see it being a big problem. PDK may be great but it also has its known issues.
(With VWs etc. A Porsche may not have the same problems.)

I think if there are two versions you like, it is time to explore for more reasons to choose one or the other.

Modern auto's are much nicer than they used to be.

(and let yer art skool kid high on drugs ruin the factory paint job while you are at it) ;)
Janis Joplin's Porsche 356 brings $1.76 million at auction | Autoweek

I see your points all. I think his concern was less of the “what will be the value” than “will any buyer know how to drive it when I’m done with it” variety. I could have worded the question better.

If current trends are any indication, manual 997.2/991s are uber rare and much harder to find, therefore while they may not sell for more $, they do sell quick and are sought after by enthusiasts !!!

On a car such as a 718, I would think it'd be a plus - smaller market maybe, but a very eager market or old farts wanting one... I'd worry more about the fact that nobody may want that farty flat 4 turbo when they can buy the last 981 6cyl instead, or the 10-y-from-now-current electric boxster ;-)

I might add I do not trust PDK to work 10 years... IMO as good as it is, it'll break 2 year outside of warranty and cost $15K to replace, if other dual clutch systems are any indication.

If the model year he wants came with it get the PDK. If not, go manual.

I own 2 cars both with manual trannys. I own an 83 Porsche 944, I'm the original owner and it is a fun car. I had an MB CLK 500 with auto and that was a blast also - it was the engine that made the difference. I'm currently driving a 2003 Passat I bought used in 2008. It was a low millage car and it was a great price point because of the manual transmission. Not many drive manual. I think I read somewhere that only 10% of new cars in the USA have manual transmissions.

There are two types of cars with manual transmissions IMO: Cheap cars and really expensive ones.

I buy cars for myself - I like driving stick. Honestly it's not fun in stop/go traffic but I do it. My next daily driver car purchase could go either way - it depends on what I'm looking at. A classic car is a different story - got to be manual. A new Porsche? I see mostly automatics but I'm priced out of them.

ditto for 360's and 430's. And I do not understand this at all.

I have thousands of miles in the F1 trans cars (in both a 360 and 430, as well as a F355 Serie Fiorano with the "horrible" first gen F1) and I absolutely love the Ferrari electrohydraulic trans, even the one in the primitive F355.

DL

I find in the 944, gotta agree.

But in the Corvette, the exhaust is just so right even from a stand still. or stuck at slow speeds.

There is also always an engine rev in neutral; of course, you have to be careful, brittle people in Miata's might thing you are challenging them to a race when all you are really doing is just having some fun.

Different strokes. I had a Maserati coupe with the Cambiocorsa gearbox and thought it ruined the car.

I think a 5-10 year old car of almost any brand is just a used car, and an automatic will bring more money.

But a 15+ year old car might start to be a classic, and will interest a more dedicated following. In that case, a manual - even decades from now - might be worth more.

I don't care about what the next person to own the car likes, but that is just me.

No doubt the PDK is the cat's ass for fast shifts and being a hero on the track. Both things that are inconsequential to me.

The thing about a Model T is that you can get 'er up to 30mph and feel like you are flying on top of the world.

Buy. Enjoy for you. Don't second guess.

The market for the PDK will always be a lot larger but with production numbers for both being what they are, the demand side of the equation should always work out. Should.

The thing that some don't quite get, (all people who've never spent time w a PDK), is that it isn't some big fun compromise that just shifts faster on the track. Once you get to know that car and shifter, it's plenty of fun. It's a performance transmission, not a woman's transmission. Though non-manual people obviously like them better. :cool:

I also would be able to rebuild a manual transmission in my garage.

How much would it cost to get a PDK rebuilt, and would it be something that would even be possible in a home shop?

as far as I've read, nobody offers that service... I know on my Audi D4 the bill for a new DSG was $14,000 - I've heard similar #s for a new PDK...