Volvo xc70 engine is toast -- Replace engine or buy new car?
 

My beloved 2005 xc70 took a dump last week. While I was reading all the fart threads, at just over 202020.20 miles, It shuddered and shimmered, and got a misfire on cylinder #3. I replaced the plug, and the coil pack, but no love, and it "felt" like something more ominous was going on.

I dropped it off at a trusted mechanic's shop, who did a leakdown and there is no compression on #3.

D#$$~!

So... Do I scope the engine to see if a valve spring broke and the valve took a dump (hopefully not causing too much damage to the piston and get a new head?)

Buy a new engine for about 700-1000 and have the mechanic install it?

Buy a new engine and I install it?

Or buy a new car?

In the last week I drove some Subarus, new Volvos, and even a Hyundia Elantra Sport GT 6 speed hatchback. In the next week or two, the new Buick Sport X Wagon will be in a local dealer.

My problem with new cars is this-
I simply don't like all the new technology.
The Subarus seem to have problems with the CVT's.
The Volvo (v90, xc90?)is all touch screen crap and cannot be serviced without some blue tooth wireless hookup to the Volvo dealer's hindquarters.
The Buick is new, untested, will drop value like a bad habit and had no spare (and an 8 speed auto which will probably crap out as well/

Or the Elantra- Imagine this, a 6 SPEED MANUAL which has dual climate control, heated seats, and drives like an AUDI A3 wannabe (but has poor looks and safety ratings (There will be a kid in the backseat)).

And another thing- Every single new car seems to be squeezing the heck out of a turbocharged .0000005 liter engine to get the best mpg. I have longevity concerns about such stressed little engines.
Thoughts? Other ideas?

My volvo xc70 is tired, but I consider it a family member. The new cars are new and tight, but I'm not feeling confident they can even deliver me to my xc70's relatively meager 200k

TIA (literally) - "Thanks in advance" or "Transient Ischemic Attack"
Ron

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I wouldn't put "good money after bad" and spend money on your XC70. Even running, it couldn't have been worth much and it'll cost you more than it was worth to get it going again. And if you did, you'll have an old Volvo with 202K miles on it. So much more left to go wrong...

Fairly common knowledge on this board that I work at a Volvo dealership in the SF bay area. Where are you located?

Hey Steve, we spoke once about extended warranty for my wife's car. I'm on east coast. If I go Volvo, we will definitely be in touch. :)

No problem. PM or email me for my unvarnished opinions...

Will do...
Random silly pic of why I like my old xc70... :)
versatile:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521072869.JPG

redid suspension-
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521072985.JPG
redid interior-
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521073041.JPG
No real car tax so to speak...

I could post a bunch more pics of how this has been both one part pickup/ one part luxury wagon. It has just been a good platform. With the rear hitch and enough roof bars to hold two full roof racks, it has done wonders.


I'm too close to the victim to make an unbaised choice!!!

I feel your pain. They're great cars until they're "totalled" by expensive repairs. You could do the engine, then have the tranny blow up next month. Lots of expensive repairs available.

It sounds like you like the car so fix the Volvo and keep driving it.

Where do you buy a new Volvo engine for $700-$1000? Or did you mean "new" used ?

We always had great luck with our Volvo’s. 760 Wagon, 740 sedan, S60 sedan, Xc90. The 90 is the only one we have now. I swear the side impact protection saved my wife’s life two years ago. Not even a bruise... it now has 126k and drives like new. If you know the rest of the car is good, spend a few grand and make it right again. You’ll spend a few thousand in tax and fees for a new another car with unknown problems anyway.

I dislike most new cars for the same reasons you state. If you really like the Volvo (once it’s gone, it’s gone) get the replacement engine and keep going. Still way cheaper than a new car payment every month (even if the tranny goes next month).

I just bought a focus ST for 7k off msrp at 19k. They are giving them away. 250 hp 30 mpg and 6mt. I dont love buying new cars either but a decent used car was going to be 15k. It is more fun to drive than i thought

Those look fun. I was thinking of trying an ST. There are a bunch up the street, I just need to stop in when I have some time to try one out. How is the torque steer?

LS swap?

There is a bit of torque steer but it isnt terrible, mostly only in first and second in slick conditions. Just a mild tug not wheel hop. I think it uses the front brakes to fake an lsd. I drove a mazdaspeed 3 which was much worse. Turbo lag is non existant, it makes boost before 2krpm under load

Its really a great value at 19k. It replaces a 12YO wrx wagon for me and it is better in almost all ways except AWD.

The higjer trim sts have great recaros as well, but i went for the cheapest trim. They may be an issue if you are not thin

Paul Newman did that once or a few times. I don't know if it's practical on a platform that drives the front wheels or all wheels.

We currently have an '05 V70 with 150k that is going strong. Before moving overseas, my wife had an Elantra GT. It was great... good fit and finish, reliable, not too bad to drive (although it was a slushbox). ...And they don't have poor safety ratings: Here's a link for the 2018: 2018 Hyundai Elantra GT

It's a "Top Safety Pick".

Nothing to contribute so ...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521143210.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521143510.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521143510.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521143510.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521143510.jpg

I would LOVE to do an LS swap but my volvo is the transverse mounted "pos" newer design. :D I sit on youtube and look up LS swaps on older wagons all the time.

I went and drove a mazda-3 hatcback today. Will try Focus ST. Hatchbacks do really good for what I need a car for 99% of the time, but I really don't feel safe hauling my daughter in the back seats. I've seen cars like this rear ended and crushed to the back of the driver's seat. Not a good proposition for the rear seat occupants.

Hopefully will talk to mechanic today. He was at Amelia island last week. Maybe he bought me a 917.

I loved our XC70. It was good looking and soooooo comfortable to drive. Have an XC90 now and love it even more.

Time to move on and get the XC90. You won't look back.

That's what I drove. Hyundai 6 speed GT sport. It was pretty nice. The mazda was a top safety pick as well, but once you've seen one crushed, it's hard to get out of your mind (although I'm still driving them :) ) I also looked at the link provided but couldn't find a rear end rating. I wonder if one even exist?

The pedal position on the hyundai wouldnt allow double clutching (the mazda could- both in dress shoes)- but the synchronizers on the hyundai were incredible, so I guess you wouldn't even need to double clutch. You could switch into any gear from anywhere at anytime. It was a "tad" bit faster shifting than my sc (as in I could shift through all 6 speeds in the hyundai faster than I could get from first to second in the 911!!) The hyundia was also peppier than the mazda-3, but the mazda overall interior was much nicer than the hyundai. Perhaps it was just how the cars were optioned.

How the heck did you do that?

Thats what they are going for around here i didnt even negotiate 19.1k. There is a 3500 ford incentive and the dealer matches it. Not sure how, there must be heavy incentives to move them. Maybe manual only makes them hard to move?

The dealer i bought it from sells 20 f150s a DAY, and the guy didnt even know what an ST was, even though they had 15 of them

An example:

https://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=468022337&zip=77384 &endYear=2019&pageLayout=list&sortBy=relevance&sta rtYear=1981&searchRadius=50&offset=105&transmissio nGroup=MAN&mmt=%5BFORD%5BFOCUS%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D

Also im no safety expert but i would think a 2018 car would be safer in just about everyway than even an old volvo. It has airbags everywhere and latest rollover regs compliance

Me, I'd find a used engine and swap it in if you really like the car. Geez, 2500 bucks is the down on a leased ST.

I spoke with mechanic back from Amelia Island:
Me:
"I heard it was just a fouled spark plug"
Him:
"No"
Me:
"I know, your wife told me about the compression, what did you find me at Amelia"
Him:
"Nothing, it was all overpriced"
Me:
"I need a quote on a new (used) engine. I want a new water pump, new timing belt, new lower end seals on both sides, and a new pcv system"
Him:
Okay


Tomorrow we will know the damage.

As an aside- he mentioned #3 wasn't zero compression, it was 30 lbs, which rules out (I was hoping a broken valve spring and a scuffed up piston from spanking the dropped valve (who cares...) and basically a new head)

Thanks- I think this is an interesting thought process on the matter.
My wife is upset I would consider dumping 2,500 into a car now worth less than 2,500.

otoh- Let's say a new car payment is 500 a month. In 5 months the car pays for itself, and no additional payments are necessary until it breaks again potentially long into the future. With a new car, the 500 payment into perpetuity is a mandatory given, as well as higher insurance and property tax.

I don't think there is a right or wrong, just different angles from matters of priority.

She said "but something else will break"
I said "yes, the water pump, the gas pedal module, the plastic radiator, the computer, etc..."

Ironically, the transmission- which is a know weak point in these cars, I messed with this summer. As it crossed 200,000- I said screw it, and cut into the return transmission cooler line and added an external filter. The darnest thing happened- The car started shifting smoother and smoother, until it felt like a new transmission. All hard shifts disappeared by about 95%. It is like a new transmission.

Go figure.

We had a 2002 S60 that survived a nasty crash by my ex that she and my toddler daughter walked away from. Replaced with an XC90 that a was a great vehicle that she slowly destroyed after the divorce. I would buy another in a heartbeat....

It's a tough call. Some days I miss the reliability of a "new car" but we made a conscious decision when we first moved to Germany to not spend much on a car until we better understood the nuances of driving (and parking) over here. We had a $700 rusty BMW that I sold for $250 after it wouldn't pass inspection. Then, we were high bidders on both the P2 V70 and an '01 E46 318 wagon. The 318 was a stick and was a hoot to drive but was starting to suffer from the same rot that took out our E39. So it got some TLC and sold to a new home. I put a new timing belt, rebuilt the PCV/oil trap system and a few other odds and ends on the V70 and we really like the car now. It's not perfect but it's rust free and has the leather of some very rugged cows, unlike most new car leather seats.

Sorry for going off-topic but my point is, I can empathize with your desire to fix the XC70. I would buy an engine, refresh it and install it myself, but that is because I am a glutten for punishment and don't know when to stop. I've found the car pretty easy to work on (surprisingly). Ours is a 2.5T but is only FWD.

While the pull of the Elantra GT, Mazda 3 or a new Focus ST might be great, I think you'll find they pale in comparison to the ease of loading/unloading and the amount of crap the wagon can haul. Now, if they offered the Elantra Wagon or the Focus ST wagon in the States like they do here, my tune might change :)

Used engine
 

I did not notice what type of engine your car have, but here are a used D5 for sale in Sweden:
https://www.blocket.se/dalarna/VOLVO_diesel_D5_motor___lada_D5244T_2002_2005_3829 0193.htm?ca=4&w=3

Regards
Tommy

Show and tell, and a bunch of questions.
After my dad's funeral last week, it was time to get to work on the volvo.
The repair estimate was around $5400 for getting a newer engine and doing all the things you do in there "while you are there." That's a lot of change for a car that would be worth 2-4 k at most. It was also a lot of "while you are in there" (at my own request). That's also assuming no surprises during the process.

I drove the car back and did some test of my own. No compression on cylinder 3. about 145-150 on all the others. Seemed like a burnt valve. I pulled the head this weekend and this is what i saw:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524417812.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524417848.JPG

I also checked out the low end and it looks like the original honing marks from the factory in all the cylinders? or is this how rings wear?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524418079.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524418646.JPG

So I guess my questions are as follows- Should I just buy a new valve and lap the old ones myself? or send this to a shop? I guess i still need to pull the valves to check for wear, but I'd like to keep it simple. Also- at 200k, should I replace all the exhaust valves? I guess I need to look at them first.

As for the cylinder linings, they seem smooth with no lips or such like I've always seen on the few 'not so well sorted' 944 p-cars I've messed with. At 200k, can that really be original honing marks? There was no damage to the cylinder bore on 3 from the broken valve.

Also- some antifreeze spilled into the cylinders when i was removing the head. How should I dry that out? air? pour oil around rings? both?

I'm fairly confident in my technical skills, but I am inexperienced with engine rebuilds. I don't have the background to know what is normal.
Any input appreciated. tia.

If that was my car, and all the cylinders look that good, I'd be getting the head rebuilt. While I'm in there, I'd probably do the timing chain and the water pump.

I mean, it's already apart.

Agreed, it's due for those anyway. All new tensioner/idler pulleys, etc. Those were some of the "while you were in there" things. I might do the turbo as well (at least the seals). I think I can get to it from the top with the head off. I need to go check.

Did that chunk come off all at once? If so, shouldn't that have taken out the turbocharger too? If it didn't, where did it take up residence?

Yup, I’d say head job, new timing belt, WP, tensioner and idler and put it back together. Why not do turbo seals at the same time? Ours has 157,000 miles and there is always just a little oil in the charge air pipe, so I imagine some refreshing will be necessary in the near future.

Arghhh!!! Crappola...

Well, now I've got another reason to pull the turbo.. Next week I'll pull it and see if it got gutted. The good news is that now the turbo access is actually fairly decent. It's accessible, and the bolts don't seem to horribly rusted on.

Another thing I was wondering about was the residual oil in the head. On the supply side of the head, it's as clean as a whistle. As you go to the other side, the crud starts to build. There is no oil feed on the cruddy side. The bearing wear seems even all the way across, and not worse on the cruddy side. I am assuming this is normal?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524427349.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524427349.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524427349.JPG

.... should load the sumbich with Restore brand engine fix, trade it in.

Frankly, I would just pop in a new valve, hone it and re-fit with new head gasket. Also, pull the turbo and check turbine for damage/shaft play (that piece went somewhere).
Yes, those are original honing marks. After re-assembly, you can run some flushing oil to remove eventual coke. Also, you can de-carbonize the heads by revving it and letting it suck some water into intake (not too much).
Other than that, I wouldn't do much more. At 200k, something else will fail before engine does again. Those engines are know to run >300k miles in our taxis w/o major issues.

P.S. If you are in the hurry, you can try to poke a borescope (one of those 20$ chinese ones will do) into shortest port in the header and inspect turbine. That way you do not need to remove the turbo unless it is stuffed.

But that chunk has nowhere to go except turbo or (if you are really lucky) thru wastegate.

I reckon 70% chance turbine is stuffed.

I have all the tools to set the head back on . You can do it without them , but tricky at best.
Id be willing to lend them to you if you need. I have the doo hickey, that pulls the valve cover back down evenly, and the tools to hold and time the cams .
Good luck, !

PM being typed right now! LOL! :)