Compact Utility Tractors
 

So, since PPOT is huge source of wisdom on many subjects...

I am looking to buy a compact utility tractor. I have narrowed down my search to either a John Deere 1025R or a Kubota BX2680 (or maybe a 2380...). I've read the reviews, watched the videos, talked to the salesman, etc., and just wanted to get some good ol' PPOT feedback. On paper these two are very similar. My goals are ~25 hp, 4WD, loader, belly mower as a minimum. I will also likely get a bush hog and maybe a tiller. Kubotas and John Deeres are the most prevalent around here. Don't see much Massey Ferguson/New Holland/Mahindra/Branson. I actually sat on a Mahindra yesterday and didn't like the ergonomics at all. The John Deere dealer is about 2 miles from my house, so that is a plus.

Anyone have one of these (or their many similar brethren)?

Kubota BX is actually considered sub compact, and the regular B series are considered compact.

I have a B2320 with a loader and backhoe. Have an older JD420 with a 60” deck for mowing. The Kubota is a great machine and is very helpful for maintaining my 13 acre property. I bought it used and expect that I can sell it for close to what I paid should the need arise.

I have two MF GC2300s, both each over 14 years old with a few thousand hours.

The two CUT's you are looking at will be great and you will really enjoy the experience and marvel at how useful they are.

I hopefully will not be in the market for many more years, but if I was (brand independent) the capabilities that would be a discriminator for me based on over 14 years with CUTS:

- Ease of belly mower deck attach/detach. When I bought my tractors belly mower decks were a pain to get on and off all the available CUTs. Now, however, ease of belly mower attachment on some models is simple and easy. Make sure whichever one you buy that is the case. Ease of attaching and taking off implements is key.

- Available implements for the tractor. That should not be an issue for you - both companies treat their tractors like Swiss Army Knife's.

- Dealer rep and proximity. I already had a large MF tractor when I bought the little ones and was very familiar with the dealer, parts availability, service, etc. That helped seal the deal.

- Routine Maintenance. The MF's are very easy to maintain. I would think that the Deere and K are the same, but ask about grease points, where they are, periodicity, etc. Grease is your friend.

- Must have a hydrostatic transmission.

That is about it. Both of those brands will last forever if you keep after them. I did not mention price since the other factors are more important. If the two are equally as capable, price can be the tie breaker.

My next farm purchase is going to be a big Kubota Zero Turn mower.

Enjoy!

i used a B23xx. now I am looking for one
it had a FEL and backhoe and mower under it.

Coincidentally, I called one of the local Kubota dealers during lunch today to get some price quotes/ask a few questions and the guy I talked to went through the same process I am going through and ended up with a Massey Ferguson (this dealer sells MF also). I hadn't considered those but should...

The people that owned our property before us had a Kubota and loved it. I was leaning toward the JD since the dealer is so close, but I am really pretty flexible.

Please let us know what your final utilization is for the unit. We use a Deere (110hp) and a Case (60hp). Deere is constantly broken down, Case only wants normal maintenance. Both were assembled in the USA at about the same time. As a disclaimer, the in-laws let their neighbors constantly borrow (been trying to stop this for five years) the Deere and it gets alot of abuse from them.

BAD about Deere: Who actually makes the one you are looking at? The manufacturers sticker may actually be on the firewall. It could be LS or a Chinese brand. LS appears to be a good tractor. Deere will ALWAYS own the tractor, you are buying the right to lease it. ALL the software belongs to Deere. You will always have to go to Deere for anything electronic related, they will give you a stink eye (well at least us) for replacing filters and fluids yourself. I believe the older Fiat Deeres were relatively good quality and ran for thousands of hours.

My buddy had a five series that was made in China, did NOT have the integrated subframe. Bolts that held the front and back halves together gave way and he was sitting on the transmission while the front end rolled away. Again, he lived in rocky terrain with lots of hills.

BAD about Kubota: Never heard anything. I found their console to be difficult to use but that is MY issue not someone elses.

BAD about CASE: NEVER buy one made in Turkey or China. Just do not do it. Made in USA is best one.

Neighbor had a Branson, down for repairs every week. BUT he even stated his was a misnomer as others in his family had the same tractor with ZERO issues.

New Holland/Case are possibly still made by LS Tractors. If not, check out LS anyway. They are simpler and may fit your requirements.


Other thoughts: Why a new one? There are some good used ones around. The older Massey Fergusons are relatively inexpensive. Stay away from the made in China ones and you should be OK. LS makes a good tractor, they make or have made tractors for all the major brands.

Make sure you get a front end loader, in that small a size get 4WD.

Practice with the different types of shifters. They make a difference if you will do lots of dirt work or picking up of things.

I miss my old Massey!!!!

Tier IV engines require DEF/urea fuel additive. Read up on it.


How many acres do you have? We mow 10 or so acres with a zero turn mower. Quicker and easier than the brush hog. Was mowing about thirty using the zero turn in preference to the brush hog. These are horse pastures.


The Dealer will make or break your purchase. How easy are they to deal with? Do you like the salesguys? Tour the repair facility. How many units are in for repair? How fast do they move through the line? It might take two or more months for our Deere to be seen at the best local dealership. At the mediocre one it is more like four to six weeks.

Just in case you were wondering, I hate the Deere. Except when it is running, then it is a real workhorse that is waiting to break down again. And it is bigger than the Case so I can use it for the heaviest work.

Paul,

For your place check out a Hustler 104. Huge cutting capacity. I am seeing our contractors move to them after we opened up the possibility in our contracts. Using them instead of 15' batwings in most cases.

Thanks you, David...looking!

Looked: Holy ****!!!

You mentioned two good choices for SUBCOMPACT tractors. I went with Kubota.

1) Seriously consider going bigger. To run a tiller, you'll want to get one wider than the tractor itself. That means they get heavier very quickly (which is good) but without front weights steering gets too light and you're probably at the limits of PTO hp (a BX with 23hp engine has 17.7hp at the PTO, for example). You will exceed the limits of the loader for a BX sized SCUT unless you use it only as a heavy-duty wheelbarrow as I do. The relief valves protect the hydraulics but it is easy peazy to tweak it out of plumb (i.e., bend an arm) by lifting not from the center point. That means the quick attach feature is no longer quick. In summary, hardly nobody trades down on tractors. Get the widest possible belly mower. In a counter-intuitive way a larger deck makes mowing around obstacles easier. Do not get Ag tires if you're working turf. You will chew up the lawn and not even know it otherwise. At least fill the rear tires. In tractoring weight is your friend.

2) Buy used! Very lightly used SUBCOMPACT tractors are all over the place because, wait for it, hardly nobody trades down! Save nearly 50% going used. Honest!

3) The dealer. It is unlikely you'll ever need help from the dealer. But when/if you do you'll thank your lucky stars.

The both the Deere and Kubota are good machines. One consideration should be the location and quality of a servicing dealer. A bad dealer can make owning a good machine a miserable experience.
I have a Kubota 2320 and it's great. I would recommend Kubota if you have a good dealer nearby.

About 2.5 acres of property. Used to be a small horse farm - still has about 1.75 acres of pasture and .75 acres of residential/structures. Not a flat spot on the whole place (East TN). I need a mower that can handle some hills and have several projects that require a loader. Also need to resurrect a 20'x70' garden. I don't need (or want) anything bigger than a ~25 hp tractor.

?? According to John Deere, the 1025R is designed/fabricated by John Deere in Augusta, GA. It has a Yanmar diesel engine.

I didn't like the loader control on the BX2670 I looked at but the BX2680 is much better.

Closest LS dealer is a long way away (~2 hours). The New Holland dealer in this area recently moved. I need to check them out.

Used ones are like hen's teeth around here unless you're willing to pay "new" prices. For example, there is a used Kubota BX2670 for sale with a loader and belly mower for $15950. I've been scouring the used market for ~ 9 months and it is rare to find anything less than $12-$15k. My local Deere dealer has a used 1025R right now for $15.5k.

This factor has been moving higher up my list. My closest Deere dealer is about 2 miles from my house. I could walk there if need be. :) The Kubota/Massey dealer is about 40 minutes away, but they seem like good folks.

A buddy at work had a 1025R that he sold a few months ago (for almost $20k). He loved it. He's actually the guy who got me thinking about all of this. His had a back hoe (that I didn't need) and he sold it almost as soon as he listed it.

Thanks for the responses. I knew I'd get some good info...

Hey Mike,

I have a MF GC2410 like this one:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521482611.jpg

You didnt mention a backhoe in your must haves, but I couldnt live without it.
The front loader cant really dig, its more of a scooper and transporter.
The backhoe makes pretty quick work of digging up trees, planting trees, digging trenches, etc...
I also have no desire to use a belly mower on this beast. They are pretty expensive and I would rather have a cheap JD mower to just cut the grass.

I thought about bigger, but I didn't think I really needed it.

Not around here, unfortunately. I might save 10-20% on something with 250 hours.

Hey Brian! Hmmm...I was trying to tell myself I didn't need a backhoe!! I am currently cutting about 75% of the land with a 54" Husqvarna riding mower that the previous owners left me. That poor mower is taking a beating. It is basically a ride-on bush hog. :)

Good point about the loader/digging capability.

I have owned a 28hp Mahindra diesel 4x4 tractor, and absolutely love it. I went through all the other brands and found it to be better built, better backed (5 year warranty), better priced (+ 0% financing for 5 years). I have a 5 foot front loader and bush hog. I have used this to clear land, plow and move snow (we get lots here), run a McCormick manure spreader, and on occasion pulled cars out of the ditch in front of my house.

I would not hesitate to buy another Mahindra.

P.S. go up a size, I did not like the ergonomics of the smaller one either

I have a MF 1734 and I love it. I use 5' woods mower on the back and have the FEL on the front also have the forks that I can swap out for the bucket. The forks have really been a lifesaver. It's like have a AWD forklift.

I mow about 6.5 acres with it and it does a great job.

Dave

Don't get too hung up on "around here". Look at Tractorhouse.com and shop around a bit. Trucking isn't bad if you keep it withing about 500 miles it'll usually cost about $700 to $750 to ship something like that. A nice feature on Tractorhouse is the auction tab. You can look at what used tractors have been bringing at auction and give yourself some idea what the dealers are paying for them on trade.

Good tip. I've noticed - for instance - that tractors seem to be a lot cheaper in South Carolina than they are around here...

The other reason I dont use the TLB for a mower is the weight.
With a loader and a backhoe, ,this thing is HEAVY!
I dont feel like taking off them off just to mow.
At ~$3k? for the belly mower, I decided to pay ~$500 for a used JD 48" mower.

And... I bought mine off craigslist for $7500 with 130 hours on it!

I've posted on this before.

Bottom line is this: your brand is only as good as the local dealer.

John Deere of that size is made by Deere in India.
Kubota is made by Kubota in Japan.
Massey is made by Iseki in Japan.
New Holland and Case are made by LS in Korea.
LS tractors are identical to the above for a significant cost savings.
Kioti are made in Korea and a decent, inexpensive machine.

I have a Kubota M series and have had a nightmare with the local dealer. I am currently deciding if I am going to trade it in on green paint or deal with an out of territory Kubota dealer.

So why is the local dealer so important?
All parts can be purchased on line, and a tractor isnt that difficult to work on.
Is this just for warranty repairs?

Gearheads may not be so dependent on the dealer for their tractors. Nevertheless, as you noted, warranty work is primary. In addition, you can't just call up any old towing company to take your tractor in like you can a car, depending, of course. Also, depending on the issue, simply calling up a dealer from whom you bought something will be much more likely to offer tech advice and what not.

In most cases, if something breaks on a tractor it will break within the first months or years of use. They don't wear out typically, especially in hobby or homestead use.

To repeat, subcompact tractors are frequently operated at and sometimes greater than their rated limits because nobody wants to accept the notion that that godamned tree trunk weighs a ton but their loader is only rated for 1500# or whatever.

OK, steep hills to me means zero turn mower. Low center of gravity, more stable. Ever been in a vehicle roll? It is NOT fun! These tractors will not be happy on steep hills. I had hills where I was and was not able to safely run my tractor in those areas. Zero turn was a no brainer. Get knobby tyres.


I do not wish to seem insulting! Please understand I am not trying to be insulting! 2.5 acres is really a rather small parcel of land. A zero turn will be quicker, safer, cheaper to operate and will provide a nicer cut. You can use them to pull a small trailer around. A tractor may be more fun but on hills it is MUCH more dangerous. I would suggest strongly looking at the chores you will be needing done. Mowing sounds like your number one. The other stuff you can rent a machine and not have to worry about the maintenance. It will be cheaper and give you more room to store your other stuff!

Several years ago we bought a 54" Hustler i full commercial mower with rear discharge. Fluids, filters, and blade sharpening. I take it on steep slopes. It cut stuff four feet tall without issue. It is faster and cheaper than my 60HP tractor with a 60" blade. We paid less than $7,000.00 for the demo model. Never had an issue.


Dealers are important when you get to those things you cannot fix or warranty work. Deere dealers are more important as if you have to do anything electronic/electrical THEY OWN the software, you are just buying the right to rent the equipment for whatever term. You cannot access their software and only Deere dealers have their software which changes year to year.


The small Deere you are looking at is likely made in India with a Chinese motor. The green paint is expensive though. It may have been "designed" in the USA but that might actually be the end of the connection.

To me the thing with the "swiss army knife" small tractors is although they do an OK job, they're not outstanding at any one job. A sports car is outstanding in the twisties, an RV you can live in, but a sports car RV would fall short on both ends.
The "swiss army knife" small tractors are too heavy for soft ground lawns, too light for scraping and loading, backhoe is a PITA seating and moving and again too light, tilling would be maxing it out...etc.


I bought a new (then) JD x320 for my lawn, and a 60hp Fiat 640 4x4 (white 2-60) with a FEL, 7' snowblower, bush hog, blade,etc., for less that a commercial zero turn. I can lift a small car with the loader, I can also dig in and fill the 7' bucket and dump into a dump truck. I blow my 400' driveway in two swipes, bush hog 10+ acres, built a road, push down 10" round trees plowed 4 acres, hay round bales, lifted trusses, etc., etc.
But I've never expect my tractor to mow my lawn, that's what I have a lawn tractor for.

I thought about a backhoe attachment, but decided to just rent a mini excavator ($250 weekend), I've rented one twice in 8 years.
Last time in one weekend I dug a 400' water pipe trench, dug in 3x75' for new weeping tiles, 100' of drainage trench and a 50x80 pond and I still had time on the meter. Way faster and so far way cheaper than a backhoe attachment.

I don't care about the tractor part, but Yanmar-YES.

You don't need anything bigger than what you're looking at for your property. What you're looking at is overkill but I get it, particularly if you garden/landscape.

I bought a JD 670 used (about 100 hrs) in the early 90's. Put a woods loader on it with jd quickattatch on the bucket, as mowing with a bucket on the front gets old very very fast.
What Paul said about bellymower on/off, mine was a pain.

I've never had anything as reliable as this little machine. It has been outside all of its life. It always starts no issue. When we divorced it stayed there, was abused by the kids moving snow etc and not doing basic maintenance, and 8 years later I go to get it as she's done with it, it starts right up, drive it on the rollback, unload, change fluids and put it to work. The Yanmar three cyl diesels are killer motors.

The only think I want for is a little backhoe, they're really more useful than anything else. But yeah, if you're not planting trees, a mini ex is better for the kind of work Mark is talking about.

Well, for sure a zero turn would cut more of what I need to cut, but not all. Same for a tractor, really. I am a pansy and don't want to roll anything over. There are some parts of my property that are simply too steep (I almost can't even walk it).

I understand. I don't need a 911, either. ;) I have more projects than simply mowing, though. I have a large pile of hay/horse manure that I would love to do something with. Trees I need to take out, a garden, a horse run-in shelter to remove, landscaping projects, a gravel driveway that needs work, etc. I also have a horse barn now that is essentially empty that I plan on converting to a workshop. Do I need a tractor? No, but I either need to hire this stuff done, rent something on occasion or simply not do it. Plus, I think it would be fun.

I've thought about a zero turn, but it really only mows. I already have a 54" riding mower. Even with the tractor, there are areas I couldn't mow, but I could mow a lot more than I am now. Here's what I'm looking at courtesy of google:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521555603.JPG

From John Deere's literature:

Who knows?

Thanks for all of the responses. I am really open to a lot of different options and I realize that my life is not going to come to an end if I don't get a tractor, but I thought it would be fun and I actually have legitimate things to do with one...

Home Debit green tractors I believe are made by AYP, same as most entry level riding mowers, last time I looked B&S engines.

Dealer x-series are made in usa, much heavier and the gas models use kawasaki engines, only way to kill them is to run them out of oil.

Some of the bigger tractors are made in india, yanmar makes one series (or used to) the rest in USA.

Yeah, reading a bit more, the JD tractors are made in the US - Grovetown, GA.

IN keeping with my hijacking practice, let me run this by you guys.

I've decided to sell on the 2wd tractor that I bought. The cost of getting the FEL mounted and rebuilt is too much to end up with such a compromised rig.

I'm heading out to look at this one today, it's 4wd and power steering, with FEL.
What do ya'll think.
Kind of high hours, seller said it never had an implement mounted on rear, wife uses it for her horses, to clean stalls, and move hay.
https://dothan.craigslist.org/grd/6535542727.html

Thanks Richard

Richard,

I would be more concerned about the hassles of shifting than the hours on he machine. 10,000 hrs is typical before engine work is needed, if maintained.

Around here, with some patience, one can do better than $6,500 for a 30hp clutch tractor and loader. Markets do vary, though.

It looks like that tractor has new paint.

Listen to the Hurricane.

I'd lost track of the size of OP's gorgeous spread. A SCUT is the way to go, everything considered. Also, what I've noticed is that people who tend to their land steadily lose turf. Turf as in lawn-that- needs-mowing.

Trees don't stop growing, the shrubs get huge, the conifers are doing what they were intended to do back when they were planted, such as being wind, noise or visual blockers. Pine needles need raking, not mowing. Everything imaginable can be hooked up to front or back of the machine and is compatible with the size tractor.

35 gal 12-volt boom sprayer from Tractor Supply hooks on and plugs in like nothing. I had to get bigger nozzles when I cast the nematodes on my lawn to infect my Japanese Beetle larva infestation. It's been a few years so they're almost depleted now.

The PTO rear bagger truly acts like a vacuum. Personally, I can take it or leave it for mowing turf but for sucking up mountains of leaves it's indispensable. Problem is the bagger and the chipper-shredder can not be mounted simultaneously and are absolutely not quick to attach or detach. Heavy and cumbersome they both are (the chipper supposedly takes up to a 5" stick). Thoughtful planning mitigates the down-sides of Swiss Army knife tractors.

You can get a tooth bar that clamps on the front of the loader and is effective for smoothing and ripping out undergrowth. They also make the loader a bit more capable moving dirt. The weight of the bar reduces the load capacity, however. Don't plan on digging very much with a SCUT loader.

Bolt-On hooks on the top of the loader bucket turns the Swiss Army knife into a hoist and also enables the load in the bucket to be securely lashed. Think lumber or posts. Around here, with any luck, you can get 10-yard dump trucks of free wood chips dumped iright in your driveway. A SCUT loader is designed exactly for the task of homeowners moving their piles of much around. And also for tilling an enormous truck garden, blowing out the driveway, for emergency power generation and for hauling the little camper around the place all summer long.

The Kubota BX and B series tractors have similar power ratings. The B is taller, and the wheels larger. That bumps them out of the subcompact category. The B is more tractor-y than a SCUT. Great ground clearance and superb ability to pull. Higher CoG makes them tippy especially with a loader. B's thus elevate the pucker factor. Foldable ROPS is a necessity.

Exactly the kinds of uses I'm looking at. Some of the steep parts of my yard (like around the old horse-riding ring), I'd like to terrace with railroad ties and fill in with something I don't have to maintain. The wife wants to build a fire pit/outdoor sitting area in the back - a load of pea gravel dumped in my driveway could be moved around with the tractor. Same with gravel for the chicken/barn area and mulch for other areas. Even stupid stuff like - I have a wood stove in the basement and a wood-burning insert in the den. There is a large, brick firewood storage area in the basement (which has drive-in garage door access). All of my firewood is up a hill and on the other side of the house. This past winter I was hauling wheelbarrow loads of firewood all the way around the house to the basement. With a tractor, I'd just load up the bucket and drive it around.

Silly stuff, but everyone I have talked to said that once you own a tractor you find all kinds of uses for it that you never would have thought of...

I am liking the Kubota stuff, too. A BX2380 or 2680 would be awesome.

Yeah, Mike I'm moving the 670 to Virginia even though we're downsizing from 8 acres with horses to 2.5 suburban, mainly because I like to garden and I can see the need to install a bunch of beds. No way do I wheelbarrow anything uphill at my age and 130lbs. Moving stone, manure, topsoil whatever... . Honestly, not sure I'd invest in new, a mid hours 90's jd machine or one like the ford linked above would be ideal, I'm thinking a hydro like in the 7,8 or 900 series. Even my little guy at 18pto would be fine-it has a full sized 3 point.

I like it. I don't know who made that model (NH tractors are made all over the world by a dozen different companies http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/tractor-brands/newholland/newholland-tractors-factory-sorted.html). I would do a search on reliability or problems with it. But it looks like it's well-made. The gear-type leveling box on the 3 point is something you don't see on cheap tractors. Wish my Kubota had one.
I took some pictures while using my tractor yesterday. I don't know what I'd do without a front end loader.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521591027.jpg

Lifting some heavy wheels and tires up to the storage shelf.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521591027.jpg

These pallet forks were a great accessory. They didn't cost much, but they really add to the usefulness the FEL. Operating the tractor with them on takes some getting used to. The tractor is already tippy with the loader lifted high and it just gets worse with these on it. It is easy to overload the hydraulics with them. I wish they were about a foot shorter. I'll get the torch out one of these days and shorten them.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521591027.jpg

Lift flooring up to storage with the pallet forks.

Great stuff..

Here is my new (I’m pretty sure I’m going to trade up) M5-111. I’m moving up from a M7060.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1521599319.jpg

My M7060 has been great and would have been fine if the local dealer didn’t forget to put an oil line in while doing a recall service. Things went sour very quickly hence the importance of a good local dealer.

FEL on 4wd is much better. When you dig into a pile, front heavy, back gets light harder to dig.

I would be very careful with that CL tractor. A paintjob like that hides alot of sins.