Calling Spine Doctors - How bad is this - MRI Pict.

hcoles · 04-24-2018, 06:59 AM

Not sure if there are any doctors/other knowledgeable people here that want to comment.
I hurt my back - got an MRI and Pregnisone - waiting for the second appointment with the doc. My back is better with the oral Pregnisone but has now leveled out and not getting much better if any. In the mean time I thought why not look at the MRI images.

Not sure which pad I'm pointing to maybe 5-6.

speeder · 04-24-2018, 07:21 AM

Definitely NOT a doctor but that looks like a herniated plus ruptured disc. The small item could be a piece of the ruptured disc that has migrated to its current location in your spine and is most likely pressing on some nerves.

I only offer this free diagnoses because I had the exact thing happen to me in 2002 and seem to remember it looking like that on the MRI. It was very, very painful but micro discectomy from a top neurosurgeon put me back to right and holding steady 16 years later. Best of luck.

hcoles · 04-24-2018, 07:30 AM

Denis,
Thanks - didn't think of a broken-off piece.
I'm getting impatient with the doc at this point.
I need to get this fixed so I can get back on my bike.

dobryan · 04-24-2018, 08:52 AM

Are you seeing a neurosurgeon or an orthopedist? I had a similar injury and the neurosurgeon was the one who knew what to do. I've been fine for 15 years now after a discectomy....

John Rogers · 04-24-2018, 08:59 AM

I had several pieces break off of a disc and would hit the nerves going to my right leg. At times the pain was so bad I would pass out and not know why and others the right leg would "disappear"! This was in 1978 and the Navy surgeon at Balboa hospital opened up a short slot in my back and took out the little pieces which I have in a little bottle somewhere. Been fine since. I would say that once a disc moves out of place only a surgeon can get it back in place, no exercise or diet or ?????.

I'm not a surgeon but I did stay in a Holiday Inn back in 1968!

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

My wife had an extruded disc (started to have drop foot) and your image is somewhat similar; found a super-specialist at UCLA. Microdiscectomy and now 15+ years of no issues.

Tobra · Tobra's Garage

Prednisone is masking your symptoms and is a serious drug, not to be taken lightly.

What does the neurosurgeon/ortho back specialist say?

hcoles · 04-24-2018, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobra

Prednisone is masking your symptoms and is a serious drug, not to be taken lightly.

What does the neurosurgeon/ortho back specialist say?

I'm following the prescription on the Prednisone - my understanding is it should reduce the inflammation/pain allowing me to get going on PT. So I agree it is masking the symptoms but I think that is the current focus.

Back specialist (at SOAR in San Jose) has not yet commented on the MRI because I'm not to the #2 appointment yet. I called today and said let's get going.

Thanks for the comments.

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

Jeebus - you don’t want To be on that Prednisone any longer than necessary. Getting my father off of it last year was a big deal.

As Tobra (the DR) said, it is a serious drug.

Best of luck with getting better.

MRM · 04-24-2018, 10:29 AM

The real question is what are your symptoms? Do you have any pain radiating into your legs? Pain with bowel movements, sneezing, etc? Is it sharp like a knife stabbing you, like an electrical shock, or just an achy soreness in the back?

hcoles · 04-24-2018, 10:33 AM

Point taken re. Prednisone. My understanding is to not take it longer than 1 week. If that doesn't work then inject it at the site - if that doesn't work then ?.

hcoles · 04-24-2018, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRM

The real question is what are your symptoms? Do you have any pain radiating into your legs? Pain with bowel movements, sneezing, etc? Is it sharp like a knife stabbing you, like an electrical shock, or just an achy soreness in the back?

Today some minor start of pain down left butt and leg. Bowel OK. Sneezing, coughing hurts. Sharp like knife stabbing then followed by soreness and probably only goes away if I lay down. Sitting doesn't help. Slow walking around seems to be okay. I'm telling my wife washing the dishes hurts - but I've milked that about as far as possible. Now down to two 20mg tabs per day of Prednisone. Then they have me going to 1 per day and then zero.

hcoles · 04-24-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcoles

Today some minor start of pain down left butt and leg. Bowel OK. Sneezing, coughing hurts. Sharp like knife stabbing then followed by soreness and probably only goes away if I lay down. Sitting doesn't help. Slow walking around seems to be okay. I'm telling my wife washing the dishes hurts - but I've milked that about as far as possible. Now down to two 20mg tabs per day of Prednisone. Then they have me going to 1 per day and then zero.

Added comment: I'd say the knife stabbing is really like a marked increase in soreness coming about with some movements. Not like a 10 pain level, more like 7 pain level then back to a 2-3 pain level. I did some planks and glute bridges and those didn't seem to hurt.

pavulon · 04-24-2018, 11:53 AM

The conventional thinking is 90% of back pain will be 90% better in 90 days. Your MRI looks like it should hurt. A fair number or disc problems will resolve on their own. If you need surgery, they will give it to you...that's how they make their GT3 money. However, if you don't need it, don't wish for it as A) there are no guarantees beyond the GT3 payment, B) it can put you on a treadmill for more back surgeries or C) it could be one and done curative!

Good luck!

sammyg2 · 04-24-2018, 11:54 AM

Nothing important to add that hasn't been posted, so ...

Gus Berges · 04-24-2018, 12:08 PM

Hope you feel better soon! I know all about back pain/issues since March 15, 1999 when an elderly man pulled out in front of me at the last moment and thought I should learn how to fly by being ejected from a motorcycle. See my x-ray as of 10 months ago:

P.S. - not sure how to flip it vertical....

MRM · 04-24-2018, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcoles

Today some minor start of pain down left butt and leg. Bowel OK. Sneezing, coughing hurts. Sharp like knife stabbing then followed by soreness and probably only goes away if I lay down. Sitting doesn't help. Slow walking around seems to be okay. I'm telling my wife washing the dishes hurts - but I've milked that about as far as possible. Now down to two 20mg tabs per day of Prednisone. Then they have me going to 1 per day and then zero.

This is mostly good. What the docs look for is impingement on the nerve. If the disc herniates or if there is an arthritic degeneration of the bony structures, they can presses on the nerve. This is what causes pain that radiates into the legs, buttocks, or hand and arms for upper back. Any irritation of the organs also is an indication of nerve root impingement. Operations can be useful in removing the impinging object. Operations are not indicated if you simply have musculoskeletal strains and sprains, even though musculoskeletal pain can be as bad as nerve root impingement. You can have positive MRIs with huge floating objects that look like they are sitting right on top of a nerve, but if they aren't causing radiating pain, you're probably not a candidate for surgery. And that's a good thing because research shows that on a statistical basis, it's hard to prove that back surgery on humans has any benefit.

So, you do have some limited radiating pain and you do have the sharp stabbing pain in the muscles, which could be nerve root impingement or it could be musculoskeletal. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the doc says you do have a positive MRI but that he wants you to do a round of PT before he starts thinking about surgery. If you go that route, make sure you get into a PT program that incorporates deep tissue massage into the exercise regimen. When the muscles in your back are on fire and tied up in knots like you are now, exercise will only go so far so fast. You need someone to put their hands into the muscles and stretch them and loosen them up. Once they settle down and the pain goes away, you can really get into the healing exercises.

speeder · 04-24-2018, 12:23 PM

Again, not a doctor but I’d steer really clear of any PT and especially chiropractors and head straight for a good neurosurgeon who specializes in spinal injuries. You could seriously increase the injury you have now and no amount of stretching and chanting will fix that injury.

Gus Berges · 04-24-2018, 12:35 PM

I too am NOT a doctor, but I 100% agree that a neurosurgeon is the specialist that needs to see your case. If it was not for the neurosurgeon who saw me years ago (Dr. Barth Green), I'm pretty certain I would not be able to walk today....

John Rogers · 04-24-2018, 02:38 PM

Prednisone can kill you......so slowly you will never know what is happening. When I had an ulcer 3 years ago my doctor put me on it for my leg, knee and hip problems. I was building a long range muzzle loader and I had been on it for 6 weeks or so and started to find I could not hold tools correctly, drop them and have trouble driving. It was getting scary so she took me off but by that time I had gained a little over 20 pounds!

Another shooter in our matches, Carl Thompson a famous Porsche mechanic was starting it and after 3 months could not even get the black powder to fall into the muzzle! He had his doctor stop it also.