LS Engine Swaps in Classic Cars - Your Thoughts

slow&rusty · 05-03-2018, 03:35 PM

There's no secret that SBC swaps and now LS swaps have been around forever afflicting Datsun Zs, Porsche 944s, RX7s, Old Jags you name it...what do you guys actually think?

Viewing a discussion on Bring A Trailer, someone chimed in and said you get an easy 400-450hp with a LS engine swap, but 250hp in a Datsun Z or 300hp in a 944 is an absolute riot (I know as I own both) and our streets are so crowded anymore there is absolutely nowhere you can use 400hp let alone 450hp or more...and who has time to go to the track anyway?

Other than some meagre bench racing bragging rights, what the real advantage? I don't think its maintenance as Datsun parts are inexpensive, 944 parts aren't bad either..and personally I prefer the nostalgic sound of bridge ported rotary in a RX7.

Your thoughts?

Tervuren · Tervuren's Garage

After getting a Corvette it does have me thinking about a V8 swap into a 944.

There isn't anything magic about the 944 engine compared to the LS engine, both will sound good, one will be much faster.

If resale value is not your primary consideration then do what you enjoy.

If I were to buy a vintage Jaguar, I would only be shopping for one with a Jaguar engine.

The same would be true for a Ferrari.

With some cars it is a matter of how deep your pockets are combined with availability and need of repairs.

The 944's suspension geometry struggles with putting power down, does a stiffer setup help negate that?

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Some of them come out very well. I have several old Jag's so I follow the community pretty close. The Jag community seems much more accepting of the swaps than others for some reason. I get it with these E type V12's, it's becoming a nightmare to get good parts. But I really do want to keep mine Jag if I can, but I do understand.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/e-type-xk-e-59/xke-resto-mod-project-v8-196591/

Eric at Pelican Parts · 05-03-2018, 03:55 PM

Original Datsun 240Z parts are getting harder to find, and the prices are starting to hke up. I know people running all SR20, RB26, and LS motors in their 240Z's too. The SR motor is a really good balance for the car, but I remember it was a bit pricey to get it in there properly. While the LS and RB motors are perfect for power, it isn't going to be great as a street car anymore. 300 hp is definitely way more than plenty in the 240Z for street driving.

LS motors are just so easy to work with, and parts are readily available. The motor itself isn't too heavy as well. Best thing is, when something breaks, just go to autozone and pick up a replacement.

Oh, and the the most reliable RX7 I know is a LS swapped one

mreid · 05-03-2018, 04:06 PM

I’m all in. Last year I put an L99/6L80 (LS3/6spd auto) from a 2012 Camaro in my 1988 Land Rover Defender. Why? Because I could and the original 19J turbo 4 cylinder was anemic. It is now a blast to drive with my only complaint being the 12 gallon fuel tank that doesn’t like passing any gas stations. It was such an easy and reliable swap, I highly recommend it! I also made a few other mods to the interior and exterior:

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

I didn't get it before i wrote the book about George Montgomery and drag racing from stop light to stop light in Dayton, Ohio in the early 1950s. After hours of interviews with George, what I get about it now is that unleashing short bursts of horsepower on public streets is fun, and in the absence of some kind of off-street tracks it's the best and cheapest fun available. Drag racing is the result of the desire for horsepower absent an off-street alternative. So I get it, big power with no place to use it is part of the 60 year heritage of hot rodding.

Eric at Pelican Parts · 05-03-2018, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mreid

I’m all in. Last year I put an L99/6L80 (LS3/6spd auto) from a 2012 Camaro in my 1988 Land Rover Defender. Why? Because I could and the original 19J turbo 4 cylinder was anemic. It is now a blast to drive with my only complaint being the 12 gallon fuel tank that doesn’t like passing any gas stations. It was such an easy and reliable swap, I highly recommend it! I also made a few other mods to the interior and exterior:

That's awesome!! You need to get an extended range tank!

Just curious, did you look into possibly doing a 4BT swap before settling on the LS3?

masraum · 05-03-2018, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

There's no secret that SBC swaps and now LS swaps have been around forever afflicting Datsun Zs, Porsche 944s, RX7s, Old Jags you name it...what do you guys actually think?

Viewing a discussion on Bring A Trailer, someone chimed in and said you get an easy 400-450hp with a LS engine swap, but 250hp in a Datsun Z or 300hp in a 944 is an absolute riot (I know as I own both) and our streets are so crowded anymore there is absolutely nowhere you can use 400hp let alone 450hp or more...and who has time to go to the track anyway?

Other than some meagre bench racing bragging rights, what the real advantage? I don't think its maintenance as Datsun parts are inexpensive, 944 parts aren't bad either..and personally I prefer the nostalgic sound of bridge ported rotary in a RX7.

Your thoughts?

I've got to think that SBC parts are still cheaper than Nissan, Mazda or especially Porsche parts. Many/most folks end up wanting more power. You should be able to build an LS3 to be cheaper, faster AND more efficient (there are folks with Vette's that are getting over 30mpg). Not to mention, a new LS3 could burn cleaner (better for the environment) and they do sound really good.

If you've got something really special and numbers matching, great, keep it special. If you've just got a cool old car, then have fun.

I wouldn't do it to an authentic, original '73 911 RS or an old Ferrari or a Jag E-type.

asphaltgambler · 05-03-2018, 04:48 PM

I strongly considered an LS / man trans swap in my E39/ M Tec. I loved the car but it was time for timing chains / guides, etc. Also 2nd sync to was on the way, there were no service parts for the trans, buy a newc1 if you could find it.

Biggest challenge is integrating the electronics between the 2. Ultimately, I passed, sold the car - as I had enough projects at the time.

mreid · 05-03-2018, 05:05 PM

The electronics can be really simple if you either have the stock LS3 wiring harness modified by a company like Speartech or buy a complete aftermarket wire harness. It only becomes more complex if you have a more modern car with control modules that must interface with the LS3 ECU.

If not, there are only five connections: B+, ignition, ground, fuel pump (the relay is included in the harness), and cooling fan control (there’s actually two: primary and secondary). You also get outputs for tach, speedo, a/c, tap shift, and shift indicator. Those are all optional. I took advantage of the electronic speedo and tach signals to install an aftermarket (autometer) programmable combination gauge. Works great!

ckelly78z · 05-03-2018, 05:25 PM

At the time I had a beautiful 1971 240Z (stock with 4 speed, and steel wheels), I also picked up a wrecked 1995 GT 5 speed Mustang (last year of the original 5.0L motor), that I fully intended on mounting in the frame rails of the Z. I had even bought the necesary cross member, and a few other pieces that I needed.

Family obligations made me sell the Z, and part out the Mustang, but I still want to do this swap. Rebello motors have come a long ways in the last 15 years, so I might consider a striker Z motor now instead.

pwd72s · 06:56 PM

I have no problems with swaps...as stated earlier, it's what hot rodding is all about...

I've toyed with the idea of swapping a 5.0 coyote into my '09 4.6 mustang...but research told me it would be an ecu/instruments nightmare to get it all to work. It can be done, but with costs equaling the price of a new car already running the hotter V-8, why bother?

onewhippedpuppy · 05-03-2018, 07:11 PM

To me, with classic cars often times the engine is the heart of the car. What would a classic Alfa be without a screaming 4-cylinder? A 911 without a flat six? A BMW without a straight six? To me the LSX is a great motor but it’s the umbiquitous generic V8. It just doesn’t have the same magic for me. If I just want to go fast in a straight line, I’ll just buy a Camaro.

A930Rocket · 07:55 PM

I get it and like it, but what do you do with the trans, driveshaft(s), and differential with added horsepower?

Seems like a high HP engine would tear these parts apart fast. Or are they considered expendable?

pwd72s · 05-03-2018, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

To me, with classic cars often times the engine is the heart of the car. What would a classic Alfa be without a screaming 4-cylinder? A 911 without a flat six? A BMW without a straight six? To me the LSX is a great motor but it’s the umbiquitous generic V8. It just doesn’t have the same magic for me. If I just want to go fast in a straight line, I’ll just buy a Camaro.

Point well made...a sought after collectable car? Yes, originality is the best route. But if it's not? Swap away...but as A930 pointed out, better be willing to beef up other areas as well. If not, things will break...

jwasbury · 05-04-2018, 03:16 AM

I’d rather have an LS powered 944 than the factory I-4 engine. 911 I prefer the flat 6.

pavulon · 05-04-2018, 03:36 AM

I think the advantages are reliable and instant torque (the fun of displacement) from an affordable, revable, readily available and pretty light weight power plant that makes great sounds and has great transmissions (tremec) that bolt right to it.

The 944, and early BMW swaps are particularly interesting to me.

DanielDudley · 05-04-2018, 04:19 AM

Good swaps can make great cars. If I blew the engine in my 928, I would probably go that route.

Most swaps tend to be done on cars that need an engine anyway to stay on the road. Your car, your call.

onewhippedpuppy · 05-04-2018, 04:50 AM

I will add that on cars that have a less than charismatic engine....game on. Mreid’s LSX swapped Defender is freaking awesome. LSX into a Jeep is awesome. LSX into a Land Cruiser is awesome. Only when the engine is really integral to the car do I see it as a shame. RX7 is another great example, the angry little pony keg of bees rotary engine is an integral part of the character and appeal of the RX7. In that case the LSX also ruins the balance because it is heavier and has to sit farther forward, ruining the original front-mid engine balance.

sand_man · 05-04-2018, 05:06 AM

I share onewhipped's sentiments on this. For me it depends on the car and where the swap is going. Gonna sound like a hater, but this is a disaster for me. I'm sure the point was to build the "ultimate sleeper"...whatever. At least it wasn't a more valuable early beetle. Now if this were a 911 engine (or even a flat Suby) installed in the rear, I'd hate it less.