Over-restored "Classic" Cars

sand_man · 06:19 AM

Before I get started:
1. There's an azz for every seat
2. Asking prices don't reflect what the vehicle will actually sell for
3. You can always ask for less, but not usually more
4. Restorations are EXPENSIVE
5. It's very easy to get carried away once you're in there (the slippery slope)
6. Given enough time everything sells...maybe

Of all the cars I've owned (there have been many), the ony one I miss (and regret selling) is a 1961 VW 23-window Deluxe Microbus, with mods: correctly lowered, disc brakes, desirable factory colors, Porsche Fuchs, 2110cc engine, "freeway flyer" trans, nice "patina", complete interior, safaris, blah, blah, yada, yada. I sold it in the mid-'90s to pay off my college loans. So for the last several years I've been looking at early buses. I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger as I'm still very much in love with my 993. And I'm still trying to finagle a way to keep it and buy a bus...we'll see what the next two years brings.

I have very specific taste in what I'm looking for. I want a driver. Some rust is okay and expected. Mods are preferred (stock buses aren't really that much fun), but no stoopid customs. I'm confident I'll never be able to afford another 23 or 21-window, so I'm looking at dual-cabs (the crew cab with a pickup bed) and 15-window models...might consider a 13-window. I prefer the "bullet" turn signals to the "sunny side egg", so a '61 or earlier.

In one of my recent searches, I find this. Don't get me wrong, it appears to be done right (hard to tell from lack of pics in the ad and the video was shot from a drone). Regardless, it looks super nice. IMHO, it was "done right" on the wrong bus. This kind of money opens the door to 21-windows with better mods and more desirable options. I'm not even sure at $60K I'd be a buyer; it's stil missing the "cool" factor I want. However, I like the walk-through option. So with a "buy now" of $124,500 and an option to make offer, I feel this is a case of trying to recoup all the money spent on an expensive restoration...not always possible.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Volkswagen-Bus-Vanagon-13-window-deluxe-WalkThru/263560396270?hash=item3d5d6c7dee:g:EYQAAOSweRlasOq K&vxp=mtr

Is it a case of somebody watching what a much more rare early 23-window bus did at auction (have seen them go for $150s and higher) and thinking they can get the same because they have a bus too? Do they not really want to sell it? Throw it out there for rediculous asking price (similar to what we see in the Porsche world) and see what bites?

I don't mean to imply a bitter tone. I just don't get it. The other thing keeping me from pulling the trigger, is that this type of money opens the door for other cars that have been on my list. I'd seriously have to consider a 356C or some type of 356 "outlaw".

A screen capture of the ad in case it goes missing:

sand_man · 03-22-2018, 05:17 AM

I found the same to be true in the classic muscle car arena. Back when I was shopping for a Chevelle or GTO, I'd run into a guy who spent tons of money restoring a crappy four door sedan and asking silly money!!! People want the coupe!!!! Not the sedan!!! You spent too much restoring the wrong car!

onewhippedpuppy · 03-22-2018, 05:23 AM

You also have to consider how you would use it. Show car or driver? Personally I prefer to drive and enjoy my cars, which means there is a point where they become too nice. Spending six figures for a fully restored anything is not an interest to me, I'd rather have a well loved driver with a documented history.

sand_man · 03-22-2018, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

You also have to consider how you would use it. Show car or driver? Personally I prefer to drive and enjoy my cars, which means there is a point where they become too nice. Spending six figures for a fully restored anything is not an interest to me, I'd rather have a well loved driver with a documented history.

EXACTLY!!!!! I'm into drivers. The bus I used in my example is no longer desirable to me. And it's not really even rare enough to be a "show car".

I'd actually be willing to pay $60K for something with rust that had better mods and a certain cool factor.

KNS · 03-22-2018, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

You also have to consider how you would use it. Show car or driver? Personally I prefer to drive and enjoy my cars, which means there is a point where they become too nice. Spending six figures for a fully restored anything is not an interest to me, I'd rather have a well loved driver with a documented history.

Dead On!

What is one to do with a $124K bus? Museum...?

sand_man · 03-22-2018, 05:33 AM

This one is $33,700! I'd be a buyer if the timing was right and I was unable to find an earlier example:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2019967

sand_man · 03-22-2018, 05:35 AM

The cool factor Much cheaper...a little rougher, but more my taste:

john walker's workshop · 05:48 AM

Doublecab for 35K on Seattle craigslist for a while. Yellow/white though. I've been looking for a 15 window too. Had tons of busses and wish I saved just one. One was a nice 63 23 window I bought for $1100 and later sold for $1700. Long time ago.

R K T · 03-22-2018, 05:47 AM

There tons of every style bus made for sale on the Samba. Cheap to Ridiculous!

I wanted a panel and found it there last year. There are less panels available than the other models because almost all of them were used as commercial delivery use. When they wore out or the motor blew they were junked and the businesses bought a larger chevy or ford van.

Not over restored, some small rust bubbles and some small dents from the inside out evidence that it was used as a delivery van. All wood interior with pull out bed, tv and wine cabinet.....

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

That looks like a nice bus, but I don't see how he has $124k into it; I think he's seen too many BJ auctions and thinks he can climb on the bandwagon. In short, no.

There was a much nicer, much more desirable 1956 23-window that went through BJ for only $90k

sand_man · 03-22-2018, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sand_man

This one is $33,700! I'd be a buyer if the timing was right and I was unable to find an earlier example:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2019967

So using this as an example, is the one on Ebay for $124,500 really that much better?

sand_man · 03-22-2018, 05:53 AM

I know a sucker is born every minute and a fool and his money, but I find it hard to believe that somebody is gonna click that link and say, "huh, $124,500, I guess that's what they cost now 'days..", and then proceed to the "buy now". You'd have to know that it is just a basic '67 13-window!!!!!

sand_man · 03-22-2018, 05:55 AM

Oh, and giving that ebay bus a cute name like "Marley" won't get you the $$$$ either!

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

My own long-term 23-window project

sand_man · 06:13 AM

I don't mean to make this thread specifically about VW buses. This one is perfection to me. I do think it's priced on the high side, but it has the look I'm after. When I saw it, I actually started playing with my finances to figure out a way. But the timing is wrong and I'm not about to hurt myself financially trying to force a deal.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2079858

Scott Douglas · Scott Douglas's Garage

Jeff - Take a look at this thread to see the current status of what is being shown in California:

https://www.talkemount.com/threads/vans-on-the-pier.17960/

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by R K T

There are less panels available than the other models because almost all of them were used as commercial delivery use. When they wore out or the motor blew they were junked and the businesses bought a larger chevy or ford van.

That's not he only reason. Imported commercial vehicles were subject to the "chicken tax" which added 25% to their cost here. More Type IIs were imported as passenger vehicles because the same van without rear seats or windows cost 25% more.

sand_man · 03-22-2018, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by widebody911

My own long-term 23-window project

Yeah Thom, I knew you were in the throws of restoring an early example. And as you can plainly see, it ain't a cheap endeavor!!!! I know you're able to do your own bodywork, but I know my limits and that's exactly why I won't get into one in need. Mechanically, I can do everything else!

sand_man · 03-22-2018, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott douglas

jeff - take a look at this thread to see the current status of what is being shown in california:

https://www.talkemount.com/threads/vans-on-the-pier.17960/

awesome!

ckelly78z · 03-22-2018, 06:42 AM

To the OP, if this person were truly trying to sell this perfectly restored vehicle, why only have 4 photos, with 3 of them blocked by sappy smiling faces. I want to see the fine details and 20+ pictures. He does seem to be about twice the asking price of what is reasonable, and not a particularly cool color combo, or model year to start with.

I see this over restoration in all older cars, where the owner has gone to great lengths to reproduce the chassis chalk marks, or spent far more money restoring the original equipment, rather than replacing with more modern, better operating components.