It's Paint Time!........

fred cook · fred cook's Garage

I got the Pcar almost apart, getting it ready for a paint job. I have removed the front fenders to clean out the body sealer and remove the fender to cowl beading and eliminate a small amount of surface rust. Would you have the car painted with the fenders on or off? I can remount the fenders using washers so that the fenders "stand off" from the body slightly so that the new paint won't "glue the fenders to the body and the painter can get a nice even coat on all the parts at the same time. OR, I can leave the fender off and have them painted separately with the possibility that the color might not match as well. I have already resprayed the mounting surfaces with self etching primer so I am not worried about corrosion, etc. Thoughts?

giovanni86 · 02-04-2011, 11:14 AM

paint it with fenders off

962porsche · 02-04-2011, 03:33 PM

i would have to ask why would you think the color would not match with the panels removed from the car ? you are using the paint from the same batch of paint mixxed for the car ? along with the same spray gun reducer clear and so on ? in my shop all cars get painted with all the parts and panels off the cars . in all the years i have owned the shop not one car ever had a panel that did not match the rest of the car . so take the panels off and spray all the panels the same way with number of coats using the same products the same way and there won't be a problem .

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

With all due respect, why take the chance? Spray paint is subject to all environmental variables, especially humidity. Spray all the parts at the same time if it's a solid color, and if it's metallic, there are even more variables. If it were me, I'd paint the final coat with the car assembled.

fred cook · fred cook's Garage

Both front fenders will need a small amount of body work which will be easier to do on the car. Once that is done, the fenders can come off for paint. Best of both worlds! Thanks to all for your input.

962porsche · 02-06-2011, 04:36 PM

with all do respect ? you know not what you speek ! environmental variables like humidity do not effect things like polyester base colors and urethane top coats . only the things like the speed of a basecoat activators in a catalyzed base color and reducers will change the way a metallic flakes MAY lay down . and even that is not a sted fast rule . only with lacquers does the humidity effect the color . and because lacquers are such a pore quality product i would stay clear from using any lacquer based products . if you use the same products with the same amount of coats sprayed the same way on all the panels along with the main body of the car. your color will match just fine . by refinishing a car with it to gether you will get tape lines in the jams . tape lines always make for a low quality looking job . how many times you you ever looked at a 911 when it was painted with the panels on ? the hood to cowel jam looks real bad because there is no good way to tape it off that goes for the engine lid jams as well . then try to do a good tape job on the door the fender gaps as so over spray does not get blown in there .

drcoastline · 07:05 PM

With all do respect to techweenie 962 does this for a living and has done more then a few special cars. His advice isn't guess work it is practicle first hand knowledge.

yel911 · yel911's Garage

Personally, I did my 74 911 dis-assembled, better detail.
Check out Damon's work here in NH.
How to: Gulf livery on 73 RSR

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

I do restorations and brokering as a sideline to my main business.

I have had this discussion many times with shops and I stand by my "why take a chance" comment. Not only because of color, but also risk of damage in assembly

Many times, people who claim there is no difference in results when panels are painted at different times/places/angles/environments do not see as acutely as you'd hope.

Here's a good example. I see three different silver panels on this car. Perhaps others see no difference.

drcoastline · 02-09-2011, 11:04 AM

I see the three color differences you are talking about but I can not say that is because the car was painted while disassembled vs.assembled? It could very well be from panel paining at differnt times.

962porsche · 03:31 PM

i was a BASF tech rep for 7 plus years and a shop owner for top end cars only now for 17 years . the only way a car can come out with deferent shades is that the sprayer did not apply the color the same way with each panel . there are sprayers and there are painters a painter knows what to do not to have the panels coming out deferent were a sprayer does not . the problem is from lack of knowledge not from the car getting painted all apart . if you have vertical panels like on the side of a car and you paint the door off the car laying flat in a stand and think the color will match then that would be lack of knowladge thinking that it would be a match . the reason why is that the matallic flakes will not lay down the same way as if the door was hung vertical . and that will also lead me to what i stated before about doing all the panels the same way with the same amount of product . say you sprayed 2 coats of clear over a silver color on the main body of the car and you then painted the doors off the car and you layed down 3 coats of clear on the panels that were off the car the 3 coats of clear will make for a darker shade of silver because more clear will refract the light deferent then if there were two coats of clear like on the main body of the car . but again it comes down to user error and lack of knowladge not environmental variables . so what it comes down to is if your a sprayer (not a painter ) then leave the car all to gether get tape lines in all the jams because the lack of knowladge will bite you in the ass one way or an other ! if you damage a panel when your doing the reassembly that to is also from lacking knowladge . if you say chip the door edge putting it on the car then you should have had some help to hang the door or you did not tape the door edges first . either way it still comes down to just not knowing what your doing . the ferrari 550 i delivered today we replaced the rear body panel and painted the two QTRS on it we also went into the jams because we did not want tape lines in the jams . now if we just masked off the door jams and there was a tape line or over spray in the jams do you thing the owner of the car would be happy about it ??????? because we also had the doors off the car my guys also taped the edges of the QTR's , doors and fenders when doing the reass of the doors .

berettafan · 02-10-2011, 04:25 AM

So the orientation of the panels when painting matters for metallics......but not non-metallics?

962porsche · 09:28 PM

it does not matter how the panel is oriented for soild colors but because of some variables with matallics yes it does matter at times . because matallic flakes are pieces of metals it has to do with the shape of the matallic flake its self and the way it lays down on a panel . there are round flakes , square flakes and triangles and so on . with a round and ovel flake it does not matter how the panel is orieated when you spray it . that type of flake will still refract light in the same way on its face and pitch . if its a square type of flake with a flat side it will refract the light in a deferent way if the panel is layed on its side when sprayed . most course iridescent matallic flakes are square shaped . a square flake is used in most cases to give a darker pitch to a color . the pitch is looking at a color at its side view . the other would be its face thats looking at a color straight on . so is it ok to paint your car with it all apart yes ! but like i stated before do every thing the same way with the same materials . with the photo of the car in this post only the person that painted it knows just what they did wrong . whos to say they used the same mix of color the same number coats of clear . ( they could have had 2 qts of color mixed in 2 qt cans and did not mix them together in a gal can before they sprayed the car ?) and again it comes right back to the user and the lack of knowladge . could they have sprayed the silver base wetter than on the rest of the car ? did they use the same spray gun ? did they spray heavier coats of clear ? people tend to spray thicker mill of material when a panel is layed flat .

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

YouTube - Factory Paint Shop Footage, Early Porsche Vintage

962porsche · 02-11-2011, 02:44 PM

qand whats your point is it becuase you see the car is painted with the doors and panels with the car . did you see the stays that hold the doors and the rest of the panels off the car ?and how would you like to keep track of 1000's of parts to all the cars getting painted every day . O-by the way i was one of the engineers that headed up porsches body and paint department . sense there is no comparison from the way cars are painted at the factory to the way they have to get painted at a shop i'm missing the point of showing a 40 year old clip of the cars getting painted . now people are not even involved with any part of applying the color to the cars . i think its up to you on the way you want to spray a car ! if your not experienced enough and comfortable painting a car with it all apart off the car then don't ! as far as i know there is no one making you do it that way .

fred cook · fred cook's Garage

I feel like the guy that started the riot and then stepped out of the room!

fred cook · fred cook's Garage

The rear of the car is now bare of paint. Discovered that it must have been in a rear end collision at some point as the back half of the right rear quarter has been replaced. The previous repair shop failed to complete the welding, leaving about a 3" section unwelded. At least the section was butt welded when it was installed. The touch up weld and a little work on the left quarter to eliminate a small buckle will be all the body work required on the back end. So far, only a small amount of incidental surface rust has been found. More to follow.

962porsche · 02-13-2011, 07:40 AM

no riot fred ! there are just opinions !when i was a tech rep for basf i would from time to time come across people saying the same thing as techweenie . and like i stated before if its way out of your comfort level then don't do it ! fred keep us posted on your project photos would be good !!!!!

rickharrison · 02-16-2011, 09:26 AM

Fred...962 has ALWAYS been spot on with his advice. I'd listen up good.

I wish I had 1/4 of his talent, but I do OK for a DIY hacker.

Post up some pics!

fred cook · fred cook's Garage

Here are a couple of pictures that I took at noon today with the cell phone camera.

Working on the left rocker panel.

The patch of white body filler is where the rear quarter was replaced at some time in the car's life.