Which primer for long term protection?

[drcoastline]

I have begun working on my car performing rust repairs that include the headlight buckets, below the headlights, patches in floor pan, rear seat buckets and I have begun the passenger rocker. I also am making some mods, so far I filled in the mirror mounting holes, antenna hole and deleted the gas filler door. I will also be adding Carrera flares. The back or underside of these repairs as well as the floor pan rust repairs will receive SEM Rust Shield for protection. What I am unclear about is which primer to use for long term protection on the surfaces that will ultimately receive a finish coat of paint? I intend to use Glasurit as my paint system. I think I should indicate that I have used Eastwood's lead free body solder on the gas filler, mirror and antenna delete holes to begin the fairing process. Do I want to use etching primer, epoxy primeror etching and epoxy primer? Thanks in advance for your input.

[kj9438]

i m now dping the same thing with u , and i only use etching primer and my car in my garage for over 6 months it see ok

[Fishcop]

My preference is for an epoxy (Glasurit do one). You can do your bodywork over the top of it (yes I know there's for and against on this), and most importantly it's waterproof. This means you can lay it and walk away for as long as it takes to get back to the job (years even).

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by Fishcop

My preference is for an epoxy (Glasurit do one). You can do your bodywork over the top of it (yes I know there's for and against on this), and most importantly it's waterproof. This means you can lay it and walk away for as long as it takes to get back to the job (years even).

John,

I have been following your build. Great work. I saw you used epoxy primer but I wasn't sure if you used etching primer prior to applying the epoxy?

Here is some info from the Galsurit site.

801-703CV
The CV epoxy primer filler offers excellent anticorrosion properties and excellent adhesion to all substrates. Vehicles primed with the product can even be stored in the open air! This makes Glasurit 801-703 CV Epoxy Primer Filler the ideal basis for all vehicles that require a particularly high-grade original finish.
Glasurit 801-703 CV Epoxy Primer Filler was specially developed for use on vehicles of composite design. In the three-layer system, it provides high-quality vehicles such as buses, beverage transporters or fire-fighting vehicles with reliable and permanent protection against corrosion. On top of this, epoxy primer filler also impresses in visual terms – by laying the groundwork for a good finish quality and smooth surfaces.

801-703 CV Epoxy Primer Filler is used in a primer filler/topcoat system to provide a cost-effective primer with maximum anticorrosion properties. And: it is also very suitable for refinishing jobs.

801-704CV
Good anticorrosion properties can also be brought about without chromate – as is demonstrated by Glasurit 801-704 CV Epoxy Primer Filler chromate free. In the three-layer system, this chromate-free primer provides high-quality vehicles of composite design with reliable protection against corrosion.
This chromate-free epoxy primer filler is the ideal basis for original finishing of high-quality vehicles – except for ones with aluminium substrates.

It withstands chemical attack, is moisture-proof, and is consequently specially suited for use on vehicles whose surfaces pose special requirements, such as galvanised fire-fighting vehicles. In visual terms too, 801-704 impresses with a high-quality finish. The chromate-free epoxy primer filler generates its good anticorrosion properties in the three-layer system, and also in a primer filler/topcoat system following a meticulous pretreatment stage.

801-72 VOC
Versatile and VOC-compliant: Glasurit 801-72 VOC Primer Filler is a more than adequate replacement for the familiar, proven 801-1552 primer filler in the Glasurit product range. It offers optimum product properties and processing options – for example, outstanding adhesion on all usual bare metal surfaces (steel, aluminium and galvanised steel).
Its versatile application options make it a popular all-rounder in every bodyshop:
■Adhesion promoter
■Wet-on-wet primer filler with corrosion protection or
■Sanding primer filler under all Glasurit topcoats
In addition to 100% VOC compliance, however, Glasurit 801-72 VOC Primer Filler offers numerous other optimisations – particularly when compared with epoxy primer fillers from other manufacturers:
■Substantial reduction in processing time when used as a wet-on-wet primer filler:
65% compared with use as a sanding filler
■Improved product colour: meets the requirements for grey undercoat materials
■Significantly improved sanding properties

Glasurit 801-72 VOC Primer Filler rounds off the VOC-compliant Glasurit undercoat material range – delivering high performance with perfect quality.


I think I will count out 801-704CV since it isn't suitable for aluminum so I would need a second primer for the bumpers.

Any thoughts on the other two? Any recomendations?

[Fishcop]

801-703/4 CV are chromate free, so you can use products such as Picklex20 freely underneath (no reactions).

Are you going to lay wet-on-wet coats? If you're going to work like I have with many weeks in between jobs, then you're going to need to scuff the epoxy before laying other coats as the "window" for wet-on-wet is only a few days. 801-72 looks like it can be sanded better.

In truth I'm no expert and have relied on the advice of my local jobber, and others on this board (particularly 962). I'd talk with your Glasurit rep/shop and get the tech sheets so you can plan your process.

The other advice I got was that aluminum parts should use etch (chromate) primer no matter what for best results. I don't have any alloy body parts on my car, so it didn't matter. My brother has painted his helicopter a couple of times and aviation standards require an aluminum specific primer... I reckon that's probably "best practice"? You could always buy just a small amount of etching primer for alloy parts as I think the reducers and catalysts are the same as non-chromate.

[drcoastline]

Fishcop,

Yes I do intend to work in a similar fashion as you where there could be weeks even months between parts.

I am also aware of the chromate air craft primers. In fact my bumpers were primed in the past with the green air craft primer.

I am hoping 962 will chime in. He sent me some spec sheets in the past but unfortunately The computer they were on crashed and I lost the info.

[mehamgul101]

well i am planing to buy a water proof full protection automatic vahicle which should have guaranteed parts so which should i to buy ? could you tell me plz here
Style

[Fishcop]

Originally Posted by mehamgul101

well i am planing to buy a water proof full protection automatic vahicle which should have guaranteed parts so which should i to buy ? could you tell me plz here
Style

Reported...

[drcoastline]

I hope no one minds but I am going to bump this to the top for a little more in put.

John, which epoxy primer did you use? Also I am not using picklex20. I am using a similar product. I found two pints of Por15 Metal ready but have now switched to Eastwood's rust converter.

962, if your watching can you chime in please?

[962porsche]

if it was me i would use BASF's RM's EP epoxy primer . if your using BASF products stay with all there products . as you may or may not know RM is the sister CO. of glasurit they all fall under the BASF corp. there EP primer is a 4/1/1 mix . 4 parts EP / 1 part PA897 activator / 1 part RM reducer . i tend to mix it 4/1/ to 1/2 part reducer for a application like yours were it will sit open for some time .
you do have my phone # still ? you can just call me if you need to know some thing .

[drcoastline]

Hi 962,

Unfortunately, I do not have your phone number. It was in a file on my computer with all the tech sheets.

I am aware that RM is the sister company to Glasurit. I intend to use Glasurit as my finish coat. Will it be safe to use the RM EP primer with glasurit produucts to follow? I just want to make sure that if I start with the RM EP primer and then lay the Glasurit products over that it will be ok?

Some 15 years ago when I painted this car I used Glasurit (22 I think). As a novice I liked how it went on. The mix ratio's were a little confusing but all came out ok in the end. That's why I am going with Glasurit this time. The only other auto paint I have used were Dupont Centauri and Imron. I am open to your opinion/advice if you think I will do ok using another product.

[962porsche]

it's just fine to use rm products under glasurit top coats .
you don't realy want to inter mix product lines .
the BASF mixing ratios are very ez most top coats are 2/1/10% under coats are for the most part 4/1/1 or 4/1 . mixing cups tend to have the basf ratios on the side of the cups .

[dshepp806]

What are the various primers out there? I'm getting ready to get my baby painted in the next few months. It would seem that epoxy primer is the way to go...but,..what are the alternatives used out there?

I don't know jack about painting,..but I do know "Jack Sheeit".

Best

Doyle

[962porsche]

doyle there are a host of products out there . pick a product line and stay with that product line . don't inter mix products .
you will want to spray a E-primer on any bare metal area's bigger than the size of a quarter . some say a half dollar but that is just to big of an area for a non DTM primer to bite into .
if there is no bare metal then there realy is no need to use a E-type primer . you would want to use a fuller primer over old paints and body fillers or things like that .

[drcoastline]

Thanks again for your help 962,

I assume RM only makesone EP primer? Again this would be toseal the stripped to bare metal wheel wells, areas that have exposed metal such as, patch panels, etc.

If there is a specific RM EP you would use please make it known so I don't buy the wrong producy.

[962porsche]

if it's a dark color like your car ( a dark blue ) then the RM's EP589 wpould work good becouse it's a very dark gray color ( allmost black) .

[drcoastline]

Yes the car will remain a dark blue. Not sure if it will remain the same blue but something very close. EP589 it is.

I need to back up a step. I confussed myself.

For the areas like those shown above where I will be top coating with a finished top coat I will use the RM589.

For the floor pan (top and bottom) surfaces, the inner fender surface of the gas fill patch, trunk area, etc. I purchased SEM rustshield with hardener.

Now the question, is SEM RS or EP the better product for the wheel wells? I will be spraying Wurth stoneguard over the surface after sealing with either product.

Thanks again.

[962porsche]

we use the SEM on the undersides of panels then after it's dry we red pad it and chip guard right over the top of the rust shield . as for the inside of the car we just rust shield it and leave it that way with the rust shield . the rust shield is a spot on match to what the black is on the inside of the floor pans . on the out sides of the cars body were it will be top coated with paint we use EP primers then a filler primer over the EP primer . you only need one med. coat of the EP primer or two light coats .

[dshepp806]

Thanks for your response 962,

My car is going down to the metal,..so I would assume one would "have" to use epoxy-based primer,..is this necc'y true?

,..or,..is it a "choice" kinda' thing?

Thanks again!

Doyle

[drcoastline]

Dshepp806,

Not necessarily the case but that's how the cars are primed from the factory. That yellow green color that some parts come in is the EP primer. After I posted my last question it dawned on me. In fact if you scroll upto my pictures you can see the EP primer. Blue paint, EP (yellow edge) then metal. I stripped this car to bare metal about 15 years ago or so. After stripping we primed the car in EP I just didnt realise it.

There are sever schools of thought on this but as 962 has stated and the fact that the factories on high end cars use EP primer to bare metal I think it's the right way to go. EP first, do your bondo work, primer surfacer.