Base and Clear System question

wndsnd · 07-09-2012, 11:11 AM

When painting an entire car and using a base and clear system do you do that for the engine and front compartments as well? Meaning, do you clear coat these areas, or just paint base, or do you use a 1 part system color match?

962porsche · 07-09-2012, 06:51 PM

that all depends on the car and what the customer is or would be looking for .
when we build resto mids then yes every gets changed from what it would be from when it comes from the car make .
then there are the total 100% resto's when you have to do every thing just as it would be from when it left the factory . and i do mean every thing .
then there are the cars that though they are a high end car they really are not all that rare . there for you can do some deferent thing to them and it in no way would be wrong .

how you realy should now spray just base color in areas like the motor bays and under hood . you have to add a catalyst / hardener to them if you want them to hold up over time . your other option is to use a flat clear over the base color . most new cars have a no gloss under body color . just open the hood on say your honda or toyota and you will see . what it really is . is a sealer the car makers use that kind of matches the top coat colors . but again when your doing a repair on some thing like that you want to copy just what the car maker did .

there was a posting not to long ago when some one stated there 3K paint job is just as good as the 10K ones . many of what i just stated is what makes a 10K paint job on a total 100 % resto or a 10 point show car .
so you see it's more of what the car is and what your building or restoring .

wndsnd · 07-11-2012, 08:09 AM

Thank you - It seems like a lot of work to clear coat those areas, but I can understand they should be sealed.

This is a 914 restoration for a personal daily driver. It will not be shown or judged. However, I am looking for a good appearance.

962porsche · 07-11-2012, 11:41 AM

i thing in your case if your not using water base colors and if your going to use glasurit you can use the glasurit base coat activator 355-55 .
you would mix it :
10 parts base
1 part 355-55 activator
4 parts 352-91 reducer
when it dries it has a nice egg shell gloss to it . it will hold up over time as long as you don't get things like brake fluid on it and let is sit there for to long .

wndsnd · 07-12-2012, 11:03 AM

Actually, my local paint shop is setting me up with, Dupont ChromaBase and ChromaClear G2-7779S Do you have any experience with this system, and comments.

962porsche · 07-12-2012, 12:45 PM

i had it in my shop for about 6 mounths when i 1st opened . the color matches sucked and the coverage was not much better . i painted the side of my volvo S60R i owned that got side swiped . for the titanium gray color it was it took 12 coats to cover . that is when i had enough with dosnot ! i went to glasurit even though i left then on bad terms i like there paint . when i went to glasurit even though the cost of the paint per color QT is more your covering in two coats so the cost to spray a car is about half the end cost . then there were the color matching . dosnot has no color chips at all were BASF does and the BASF chips are real spray out chip not ink like most other paint CO's give you . BASF is a european paint CO so because 99.9% of the cars we do are euro car the color match is 3 times better than that of dupont . i will have to say the only clear i did like for dupont was there 7900s . it lays down great and sands and buffs up good . other then that no i did not like it at all . if i thought any other paint CO were good i would not have every BASF paint line in my shops . there are good reasons why every top end car maker like ferrari , lambo , porsche , BMW , M. BENZ , rolls royce , maybach , aston martin, and so on only use BASF coatings .

wndsnd · 07-12-2012, 03:19 PM

That is not good, I will look into the area BASF Distributors, for information on the system 55

962porsche · 07-12-2012, 05:39 PM

my BASF rep should be stopping in on friday i will ask him what BASF jobbers are up in mass .
if i remember right amesbury is right out side of seabrook were a good friend of mine lives . he has a lotus eleven that i / we did the resto on . then 5 weeks after he got it back from me he crashed it at the glen going down into the boot . we get the car back to him after that and 2 events later he spins it at mosport and gets T-boned . we fixed it again and now for some crazy reason he does not want to drive it any more . so we are now building him a lotus europa . i told him an all green car is not a good luck for a racing color ! what color are we painting his new car green .
but any way i will find out were a basf jobber is up there .

wndsnd · 07-13-2012, 03:58 AM

It looks like there is a dealer in lawrence. I will try there. I need the 55 epoxy primer first. Any idea how much I should buy for a 914 .

Seabrook is only a couple of miles away. Tax free. I do all my big purchases there!

962porsche · 07-13-2012, 06:40 AM

if your going over bare metals than i tend to go with chromated etching primer # 283-160 with activator # 352-228 . i would start with just a QT at 1st . it's a 1 to 1 mix . and you only want one light to med coat and no more . with E-type primers more is not better it's worse .
if you set on using a epoxy primer then there is the 801-72 primer . that is a 4-1-1 mix .
4 parts 801-72
1 part 965-60 hardener
1part 352-91 reducer
the epoxy primer is good if your using a lower grade body filler that does not like to stick to bare metals . you can spray down one coat of the epoxy primer and do your body work right over the top of it . you can do the same thing with the etch primer also
this too is only a one coat product .

wndsnd · 07-14-2012, 01:17 PM

Thank you, I went to Lawrence, and found a dealer for the Glasurit. He could only find a paint code in the 22 system for a yellow I was looking at.

However, I would like a silver, if I find what I am looking for. Years ago I saw a 550 Spyder restored in Essex, MA that was silver, but if you looked deep into the paint you saw that the flakes were gold. It was awsome. I went through a lot of Glasurit books looking for it in Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche, but could not find any silvers with gold undertones. Have you ever seen this color, and know where I could look for the code? I would think in the 55 system, it would be beautiful.

962porsche · 07-15-2012, 07:04 AM

i'm thinking it was a special mix ? not knowing just what you saw it would be hard for me to say . BASF has color max chips . the jobber should have them . i have had many customers sit here for days looking thru them finding a color they like for there car .
i would say it had a gold pearl in the silver giving you that look .
many times if you ask for a color like yellow with a porsche color code being a solid color and because porsche used a solid color to paint the car when that color from basf will only be offered in a solid color also . one big reason is if your car like porsche's you would want to keep it as it was when it left the factory . if you put a base clear color on a car that should be in single stage you are taking value away from the car . if you really want to clear a single stage color you can .

Ken911 · 08-07-2012, 09:28 PM

is BASF the maker of ppg? my clear coat just died. I live in miami and my car spends most of the time in the sun. Whats the best system that will live longest in the sun?

962porsche · 08-08-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken911

is BASF the maker of ppg? my clear coat just died. I live in miami and my car spends most of the time in the sun. Whats the best system that will live longest in the sun?

in no way are they the same CO . i am not a fan of PPG AKA piss pour gloss .
i tried it in my shop as a demo an it just sucked .

Ken911 · 08-08-2012, 03:53 PM

OK so What should i use? i was planning on wet-sanding the clear off down to base coat then 1 coat of color then re-coving with clear. Except the drivers rear corner which will have to go back to bare metal due to some problems underneath the paint. I have access to a paint booth on weekends if needed but was planning on building a temp one in my car port so I wouldn't have to trailer back and forth every weekend.

962porsche · 08-08-2012, 05:00 PM

BASF ! to wet sand the old clear off is point less . what is your reasoning for thinking that ?
what is wrong with the clear that is on the car ?
1st i need to know what is wrong with the finish on the rest of the car ?
you state you needto strip the old finish off the left rear QTR panel . with that you will want to use a E-primer over the bare metal then a filler primer then base color and then clear coat .
as for the rest of the car you would want to (if your wet sanding) sand it with a 400 to 600 grit wet sand paper then wipe it down with a pre paint cleaner then tack it off with a tack rag then two to 3 coats base color then 2 to 3 coats clear .
one coat of base will not do you will need two or more to get a proper mill build out of it .

Ken911 · 08-08-2012, 05:09 PM

The clear has failed. It's crystalized looking and starting to peel in couple places. This same shop had painted the hood on my pickup and all of the clear cracked and peeled off. Of course i went pack to try to get it rectified and the waranty was only good for 5 years on the paint. The owner retired and the their painter got canned a couple years back. I'm suspecting the paint used was not the same as what i actually paid for. Any way this is the one thing i didnt do myself on my car and the one thing that screwed up. What grade or type of BASF paint should i Use is there a certain model line? I figured i would learn on the truck hood before tearing into my turbo.

David McLaughlin · David McLaughlin's Garage

Wndsnd, my boss has several color book that I'm sure he'd let you look through. Mostly we spray Spies color though I've seen him use others too. The last Porsche that we did multiple areas used a single stage paint in the trunk and engine compartment and a two stage outside. Another car we just finished used a reduced gloss black everywhere inside and a beautiful dark gray metalic two stage outside. The insides of both cars has several areas with a texture coat before the color.

Ken911 · 08-08-2012, 05:30 PM

OK so i went to the BASF website. They have Glasurit 90 and 55. Which should i use? And what brand and model of epoxy primer?

962porsche · 08-08-2012, 05:42 PM

if your having clear failure you will need to strip off all the clear . it may also have failed the base coat under it depending on how long the clear has been bad making you have to remove almast all of the color and top coat from the car were the product is failing . you may not have to strip the top coats off the sides .
the reason your trucks hood could have failed is that the base also was failing too and they like 99% of the shops out there just went right over the failing base or under coats .
just because the top coats are failing does not always mean you have to strip all the finish off the car . you can at times only have to remove the products that are failing and maybe able to leave the under coats like the OE E-primer and some times even the OE sealer . with out seeing the car in person i could not say just how far you have to strip the finish off the car . but i will tell you this if the clear has been failing for more than a year you will need to also remove the base color as well . a non catalized base color will in no way hold out any weather like rain . water goes right thru base colors if you do not use a catalyst to cross line the base coat polymers . most of the time you only use a catylest on try color finishes .
when it comes to BASF products they offer deferent lines and they go like this . glasurit is there top of the line products kind of RM products are about the same but are marked for US and asian car makers . BASF self products to more auto maker than any other coating co. and all top end cars do use glasurit as there coating supplyer . so RM is a very close 2nd to glasurit only because of the fact that the high end car maker want more products to pick from . then there is the limco line . the limco line is on par with the dupont and ppg products along with sherwin willams . if i were you i would use the limco base clear system to get your feet wet . it's a little lower cost and very user user friendly . the limco supreme plus would be a good bet . i have there system in my feb and race shop . i also have every mixing system basf has but all the other ones are in the body shop that is in a deferent location .