Final Paint Procedure Question

[Uwon]

More than a year ago, my tub and panels were all taken down to bare metal followed by e-priming and sealer. Door jams, inside trunk, engine compartment, were final sprayed with Glasurit 22. I was going to install wiring and mechanicals and then go for final exterior paint but changed my mind as I did not want any paint dust on anything. So finally I am now ready to send the tub back for final paint. Question I have is, what is the appropriate procedure to get a real nice finish free of orange peel?
The body shop suggests final sand/prep followed by two coats of 22, sand again with 1500/2000, final coat of 22 and then buff/polish. Is this a bit over the top?

[962porsche]

it is totaly pointless to do that .
1st if you prep the car the right way you will not be geting any more peal that what the oe finish has .
2nd if you paint a car then sand it andonly spray one coat more of 22 line you could brake thru the last single coat when your color sanding and buffing . then when you real close to the finish you could very well see little ring from were you did brake thru that single last top coat of the 22 line paint .
so it's not over the top it's totally pointless !
what i'm getting from what your saying is there paint work is so bad they come right out and tell you up front they need to paint your car twice just to get a good paint job .


the things i see and hear shop and people do and say they do to get a show finish totally amazes me .
i my old shops we have built more top show winning cars than i can count and we never ever have done any of the crap i hear people do to get a winning finish .

if you prep the car for it's top coat the right way that is the 1st step to a good finish .
then if they have the right equipment and know how to use it there is no need to spray the car more then once . it goes in the booth and comes back out that's it !
then when it comes to the color sanding and buffing you will be doing that to take out any peal (and there really should be non at all ) and maybe a hand full of little pieces of dust .

i won't even get into a top coat not wanting to stick to or bite into a sanding grit cut any finer than a 1000 at the most 1200 grit .

i just paint the side of my friends lamborghini aventador yesterday . as you know i close up my body shop and i'm now just doing little jobs from time to time in my very small airbrush shop . the air brush shop only has a very old non heated cross draft booth . lambo spends more than 18 hours color sanding and buffing there cars finish after there painted . lambo is known for having one of the finest finishes of any auto maker . when i was done painting it there was no peal to the finish and two pieces of dust as the paint should be right after it's painted . i would never think about now sanding the side of the car back down and remasking it and putting it back in the booth and spraying it again .


when any one is looking at shops to do there work you have to ask all the steps they go thru right from the start to the finiah of there car . how and what products they will be using the steps they will be taking and so on .
because it may come down to who is paying for all the extra needless metarials and time on your car .

[Uwon]

Wow, thanks 962. What a revelation! I can recall back in my early hot rod days where guys would brag about having eight coats of candy apple red paint on their chopped '32 Model A's. I guess it's not so any more.
I will go back to my original body shop who had the more reasonable approach that you have described.
Thanks again.

[962porsche]

it was one thing back in the day when there was lacquer paints on custom cars then yes you had to apply 3 ,4 and 5 times the amount of paint just to get a good deap finish . so people would tell you they have 50 coats of color on the car and yes they did they needed it it was lacquer .
now when people tell you they have 20 coats of clear the 1st thing that comes to mind is BOY YOU REALLY ****ED UP THAT PAINT JOB ! then what comes to mind is if you do really have that much paint on the car you will be stripping it in a year or two because with todays paints any thing more than 14 mills will crack and check up in no time .

if a shop any shop can't lay down a good flat finish the 1st time evrey time it's then time for them to learn how to paint or find some one that can . like i have said 100 times before there is a big differents between a sprayer and a painter most shop hire sprayers and like to call them painters or worse yet the sprayer that thinks he is a painter .

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by 962porsche

or worse yet the sprayer that thinks he is a painter

Once in a great while I "think" I am a painter....Usually the times after I really clean my gun. :-)

Seriously, multi applications of 22 Line color baffles me. Not even mentioning the paint risks, the time to prep a car for paint is huge. You are talking three paint jobs.

If you are looking for an awesome finish with the paint, hire a guy that really knows sanding/polishing after the color has been applied.

One thing I would like to know, if you are going to wet sand color, how much "extra" 22 Line paint - if any - can be applied without creating other problems?

[962porsche]

Bob as for applying extra coat .
there really is no set answer for that .
so people say they start with sanding grits like 800 then keep braking the grits down untill they get so grits like 3000 .
if your doing that you will need at the least 3 extra coats or by the time your finished wet sanding and then buffing you would not have anough mills of top coat on the car to protect the substraights .
then there is the simple truth about if your having to start with a grit that course
(of say 800 ) then you may as well just repaint the car because if the finish is that bad you ****ed up some were to make it that bad . or because you had to put so many extra coats of paint on because you were planing on starting with 800 grit to star you wet sanding i. the finish will be so orange peally for that amount of top coat you would have to start sanding with 800 just to knock the peal down .

when it comes to painting the rule is coverage plus one coat . so if your covered in 2 coats then apply one more . you should only have to color sand with say a 1500 or 2000 grit . any compound will take out that sanding grit scratch with ease . as most compounds are = to 2000 grit . and yes most compounds have cutting grits to them . to see just put a little between your fingers and rub them together . kind of gritty right !
so even to color sand with a 3000 grit is kind of point less as your compound has more cut to it than what you sand with . were the ultra fine grits come into play is on things like you have a stain from say bird crap on your hood with a OE finish . you tryed to just buff it and it's still there . you have to give it a little wet sanding but if you sand it with some thing like 2000 you could sand and buff right thru the OE finish because the does not have the mill build as what a repaint would have . a oe finish at most will have 1 to 1.3 mills of clear were a repaint will have 2 to 2.8 mills of clear . so you would want to use a 3000 grit on a OE top coat and a compound with little to no grit to it . again it comes back to trying to leave the most clear or top coat on the substraight as you can to protect it .
also the more product you spray on a car the more waves you put in the finish . the same holds true for sanding . yes you block your work and primers to get them as straight as you can but once you get them straight you want to leave it . you don't do your straighting or fixing with top coats . you want them to be there best and try to leave them there best .

so this comes right back to the begaining . you want to have your body work and primer smooth and straight . you want to lay down your top coats like glass the right way the 1st time then you only should need to do very little color sanding and buffing with just one or two sanding grits of 1500 and or 2000 . that's it !
all the crap you hear about people adding clear to the last coat of the single stage and crap like they spray the car then sand it and repaint it or they spray 6 to 8 coats of clear or top coats on is them just telling you they have no idea of what they are doing .
top coats are NOT like penuses more is not better .

[Bob Kontak]

Thanks for the reply 962.

I have a friend in Maine I would like to visit. Would love to stop by in CT and meet up with you on the way. Given he is almost in Nova Scotia an hour or so out of the way from Ohio is nuttin'.

Thanks for all the help over the years. Also, hope you are not going anywhere with respect to this forum.