Spider Web Scratches & Carbon Black M5

[gra8fuldd]

Hello Fellow Bimmer Fans:


Well ... Here's the problem and I'm sure others have the same.

I have a 6 week old, 2003 M5. It is Carbon Black with Imola Red interior ... and it is quite stunning, if I do say so myself. So far, the car is 100% stock.

It is one beautiful piece of machinery.

To date, my only complaint, other than the notorious E39 cup holders ... is the continual cobwebesque spider scratches that magically appear on every piece of painted metal.

These webs drive me NUTS!!

I even went as far as taking the car back to the dealership and having the district factory representative take a look and lend his opinion. That took a couple of weeks to set up.

Franz, the reps name, took a look, up and down the car ... and then he shrugged his shoulders and said ... "Lets give the car a good detailing and see how it looks." I proceeded to the detail shop that the BMW dealership recommended and after they were finished ... the car looked Okay ... NOT perfect, but Okay. I had been there with the car for about 5 hours.

The sgag continues ...

2 evenings later ... I pulled into my regular mobil filling. As I walked around to left up the hood, I almost colapsed. I saw those same spider-like cobweb scartches again. I felt like banging my head against the nearest object. I guess the very bright Mercury Vapor Lights that this particular Mobil station has showed off every possible blemish and imperfection that my M5'er had to offer. I examined the entire car and it was starting all over again. Not as bad as before the detail shop ... but it appears to be the beginning stages of cobweb building. I know it sounds ridiculious ... But its true.

After further investigating and talking to all different types of paint and metal experts ... I was told that the BMW factory is using a little different clear-coat since 2001. That new clear-coat is little softner and the only way to truly eliminate and prevent all those spider scratches is to "Re-Clearcoat" the entire car. I find that to be a ridiculious solution to a $85,000 car.

I cannot get anyone at BMW-NA to confirm or deny that.

Any comments, solutions or suggestions????

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Can you get a picture of the webs? Im curious to look at this.

I would imagine that the BMW factory warranty would cover any flaws in the fit or finish. I fyour dealer is giving you trouble, (seems to be pretty common) I would reccommend going over them and report the problem to BMW NA. IF there is indeed a flaw in the paint, I would imagine they would have to correct the problem as per the terms of the warranty.

[Javier at Pelican Parts]

jared is correct I have had similar problems, call the 800 number in owners manuel be nice but firm, it may take a few calls but they will fix it.

[gra8fuldd]

Thank you for the replies ...

Here's a question ...

How can they fix something that they will NOT acknowledge is a

problem??

Javier - Did you have a similar problem with a dark color BMW?

If so ... What did they do to correct it?

[toman]

Having worked at a car dealership, while not a BMW one, all I can say is that to get anything like that fixed, you're either going to have to yell really loud, or go directly to the manufacturer somehow. 99 percent of people who work at dealerships in sales OR service don't know what a proper finish or detail is supposed to look like, so be prepared to get frustrated there.

[the shine shop]

the problem is all these attempts at fixing your problem just covered it up.find a good detailer and they will tell you that most likely the other people were using a glaze that just fills them in and does not remove them.i use a polish that removes the swirl marks and scratches. i just traded my 540 for a 330 and told the dealer to leave it alone after seeing the detail shops handy work
good luck

[toman]

I agree with the above post. If you just want to get the problem fixed and you've determined that it isn't a defective finish, take it to a GOOD detailer. That means not the guy at the dealership. (or me, for that matter. )

[silver330i]

I have a couple of questions about your issue. First, can you identify what kind of scratches they are? What I mean is this...

Sometimes residual dirt on the paint can resemble scratches. If the car gets dirty (ie in the rain) and you wash it but don't get all the dirt off, you can see swirls that resemble scratches.

The way to tell what kind of scratches you have is to get the car in direct sun light. LIGHTLY wipe a clean, dry cloth over the paint (which should be clean first). See if the scratches "move" with the motion of the rag.

Also, keep in mind that if you wipe the paint with a towel with any fabric softeners on it, the chemicals will transfer to the paint and leave marks that resemble scratches.

You really need to understand that you choose black. It is by far the most difficult color to maintain. Anything which passes over the paint will leave a scratch, no matter how insignificant the contact is. If you dry-dust the car, you will scratch the heck out of it. You need to be especially careful with this color.

OK... now assuming that the marks are not residual dirt and are actually scratches, then you need to get rid of them. Here is the hard part...

There are a variety of products out there which claim to get rid of swirl marks and light scratches in black paint. Ultimately they all work about the same...

I personally like Zaino (http://www.zainobros.com). I suggest you get some of their Z1, Z2 and Z6. Use the Z1 multiple times until you see the scratches disappear. From there, be extremely careful with what touches your paint. Even a california duster can leave marks that look like scratches.

It is also critical that you not use anything other than short nap pure cotton towels on the paint. I suggest an Absorber to dry the paint after a carwash. By the way, on the subject of car washes, please know that machine washes will demolish your paint!

If the car gets really dirty and you need to use soap to wash it, try Sonax Gloss Shampoo (http://www.carcareonline.com).

I really hope this helps. Maintaining black is a labor of love. Good luck!

[gra8fuldd]

Silver330:

Thank you for the heads-up on the different possiblilties.

Since you are from LA ... I know you'll believe me when I say the Morons, who prep the New Cars, at Beverly Hills BMW scratched the heck outta this Carbon Black M5. Unfortunately ... I took delivery in the early evening and I was unable to put the car out into the "Direct" sunlight tro really see what's really on that ClearCoat.

BH BMW has paid for 3 seperate detailings at an ... OFF the lot detail-shop which is named DentWorks. They are located over in the 1200 So. Labrea ... just North of Pico ... on the West side of the street.

They said I shouldn't even use a chamois on this color car.

What really got me is when ... They said that they truly believe that BMW has changed the formula of their ClearCoat. It is softer than ever. The said that the 2002 and the 2003 dark colored cars scratch so much easier than previous years and they've have to redo cars 2, 3 and 4 times. Of course, BMWNA denies it.

I'm gonna try out Pinnacle Souvern this weekend.
So far ... My M5 has ONLY been Handwashed. It hasn't seen the inside of a machine wash ... YET!!

[the shine shop]

i am fortunate to do a lot of bmw. this is what i do to every car
obviously after washing you need to dry,but with black the more you touch it the more you scratch it. if you don't have a compressor than get an ELECTRIC leaf blower and blow dry the car,this cuts down on the rubbing on the paint. invest in the porter cable orbital machine,or go to the meguirs web site and look up machine polishing. now ,i polish with a rotary machine then follow with medallion wax and the orbital ,but if you use #82 polish and follow with medallion wax it will look like a mirror. nothing leaves my shop with swirls unless they need to be sanded out.
as far as soft clear coat,the problem is the dealer is using old technology on modern cars,plus there is NO !!!!! reason to use a high speed buffer on a new car!!!!!! i told my salesman that if his guys waxed my car i would not accept it,they then wanted to know what i used,but they have not come up with the money to to pay my time.
please call if you have any questions
mike 410-833-1632 est.