944 paint advice

[rufrob]

Hello.
I bought an 86-951 orginally guards red, but it was poorly repainted Rosso red.
The rosso red is coming off in chunks and its bubbling in various places, dull and hazed.
I would prefer a black.
Should I wet sand and touch up the Rosso red, bring it back the original Guards Red or black?

[bpu699]

Just enjoy the car...

A good paint job is more than the value of the car....

You may want to consider doing one of those wraps, if you have the time to do it yourself...

[962porsche]

as a shop owner this is what I have to deal with on lower range cars .
to do a proper repaint on cars like the 944 bodied cars you are in fact looking to spend more then the value of the car .
so what happens is the owners bring them to the shops that give them a low price for the repaint . but the down side is a low cost job is also a low quality job .
a good paint job starts from the substrate not just the color coat you put over every thing .
because the shop wants to make money they cut corners every place they can . prep being one and years later the paints finish starts to do what this car is doing .
the biggest down side to this is now if you want to do a proper refinish the job will be more costly .
the finish is now pealing and delaminating so now you have to strip the cars finish off .
just that alone is 1500 to 2000 dollars .

we just did a MGB resto the total cost was 68K dollars . the car is only worth 30 to 35 K .
the cars owner had no problem with spending the money as he will never sell the car as it was his from new .
but this is a rare cast .

I love the 944 bodied cars hell I own 12 right now .
one of them I restored and just in parts and materials I have 32 grand in the car and that does not include my labor hours .
the down side is we do not do many 944's in my shop my labor rate is 125 an hour and that is more then twice of what a run of the mils body shops labor rate is . because of this we will only work on high dollars cars (rare and exotic's) .

from time to time we will get a 944 MGB TR6 or other lower cost car in but even many 911 owners will want a cheap low cost refinish job .
we give a average 911 owner a price of 60 K to restore a car and they walk away .

the thing is only when you start a resto your self do you really see the time it takes and what really goes into it .

you will read on the forums like 944 Miata and such how macco gave them a good paint job .
all I have to say about that is NO you got screwed ! because the repaint will end up doing what this 951 is doing . the truth is they really messed up the car more then did it good .
the simple reason is now years later your now have to strip the cars finish to fix there very bad prep work .

[78-911SC]

"the thing is only when you start a resto your self do you really see the time it takes and what really goes into it "

I'll second that. Already have hundreds of hours and still not done prepping.

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by 78-911SC

"the thing is only when you start a resto your self do you really see the time it takes and what really goes into it "

I'll second that. Already have hundreds of hours and still not done prepping.

Ditto...

I have been working on my 930 for 4-5 years now fixing one thing or another... paint and body is next...

If I paid myself 10$ and hour I could have bought a concours winner.

Oh well... I guess thats why its a hobby

[rufrob]

Thanks all for the great advice. I guess I have to decide what I want to do with it. I love to restore cars, bringing them back to original condition. A few years ago I repainted my 930 with rattle cans. It turned out not too bad . I am pretty handy so I will strip it myself and see what the bodyshop will charge. I have to do my 930 too. Here in Japan, no Maaco exists. The cheapest quote I got for a complete respray is $5000.

I did my 944S2 too outside

[David McLaughlin]

Cheap and easy: dipyourcar.com

Less cheap, less easy: strip the car down yourself and go to a good shop to have a good paint job done.

Not cheap by a long shot: color change

[962porsche]

there are many things you can do for body work on your on car .
some times you can hook up with a friend and rent a little shop for cheap . that's here in the states though in Japan I would not know .
I have kind of a odd ball car here in the States that's a gray market car from Japan .
it's a Blue 1992 Mazda AZ1 it's a blast to drive even though it's slow .

[962porsche]

Originally Posted by bpu699

Ditto...

I have been working on my 930 for 4-5 years now fixing one thing or another... paint and body is next...

If I paid myself 10$ and hour I could have bought a concours winner.

Oh well... I guess thats why its a hobby

that's the screwed up part at 10 bucks an hour .
you could work at the area burger king and make more an hour .

[dondarnell]

I couldn't disagree more. You shouldn't sand to bare metal, and the car won't rust. Go back to the OE color and OE spec ( which will have some orange peel), and it should be done for 6k. These cars are gaining in value.

[962porsche]

see this is what happens when you get a 6K paint job .
to sand a car to bare metal there has to be a reason to do this .
in this cars case as the repaint is so bad it's pealing and delaminating it needs to be stripped .
but to bare ? how knows how the finish is under the repaint ??? it could be just fine with no reason to strip to metal .
when stripping a cars finish you have to decide that car by car and panel by panel .
some people think it's best to remove the OE finish this is just not true !
just to strip a finish for no good reason will at times do more damage then good .
then stripping a cars finish your going to remove the galvanized coating Porsche applied .

so now for 6K your never going to get a top quality repaint !
in our area the run of the mill body shop labor rate is 50 dollars an hour .
so 1st is labor hours in R and I (remove and install) all the parts from the car .
the average time to do so is about 4 days labor .
then stripping to bare . by hand with sanders on a repaint not at all worth the effort so into the blasting tent the car would go .
average cost to strip a cars finish is 1000 to 1500 dollars . that is a big chunk out of 6K .
so now you have the car in bare metal you will need to replace the galvanized coating that has been removed . so you will need to spray a coat or two of a E-primer on the car (epoxy or etch)
then your going to need a filler primer and top coats . your looking at a shops cost depending on what color any were from 1200 to 1800 on materials .
another big chunk out of 6K

now what rust are you going to need to repair on the 944's body ?
like all cars 944's have there rot out areas . backs of the front fenders in back of the rear wheels . front lifting points and even at times lower outer rockers that will also some times get into the center rocker . and that does not include the battery box rot !
you can't buy patch pieces for the 944 so a shop could do what we have done and that is to make bucks to shape the metal over . but most shops don't have them so they will have to do all the complex bends by hand .
so how many labor hours will that eat up out of 6K ?? a lot !
now all the rust is repaired and dents and dings fixed .

time for painting our price to just prep and paint a car is 6 to 10 K .
your run of the mill shop it would be 2 to 3 K .
macco 100 dollars

cost does reflect in the out come .
all and all for cheap you can get a 6K job done but quality job for that NO !
this same job in my shop would cost much more then that this is why we don't do many customer 944's .

one of my 944's we restored was taken down to a bare shell with doors fenders all parts removed for the car . stripped to bare metal even the under side of the floor .
the car got a full concourse resto labor hours were over 1500 hours . closer to 2500 hours real time hands on job . parts cost to replace all the little bits and pieces and new front glass was over 10K in just the parts .
when all said and done it was a 65 to 70K resto . on a car that is worth no more then 12K .

so stating what a resto will cost and asking others what you paid for one has no meaning at all !
no two cars are the same your use of the car and what your looking to do with the car also may not be the same as the other guy .

the 944 bodied cars are not really gaining much in value yet . the prices are going up a little but nothing to jump thru hoops about .
I just bought another 944 8V over this past week end for 5K so now I have 13 944's this one is going to be another track loaner .

[rufrob]

Wow. Lots to think about.
Whoever painted it before didn`t even bother taping off anything. I am still finding over-spray and shop dust everywhere, under the hood, the suspension, even the interior wiring harness. After looking at the paint more carefully and more finances even more carefully, I decided I am going to try to repair the paint on the sunroof panel, hood and headlight lids. I guess red will be easier than metallic gold. I plan to sand down the bubbles, rough spots and fades. The doors, nose, front fenders and rear 1/4 are in good condition.
I think I did an ok job.
From this


to this
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/106401861971491846444/albums/6049496114623474017/6049496619754005170?pid=6049496619754005170&oid=10 6401861971491846444

this
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/106401861971491846444/albums/6049496114623474017/6049496934617628514?pid=6049496934617628514&oid=10 6401861971491846444

to this
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/106401861971491846444/albums/6049496114623474017/6145871801241257058?pid=6145871801241257058&oid=10 6401861971491846444

[rufrob]

Well, the die is cast. Yesterday i took the car cover off and found huge chunks of paint flaking off. No choice now but to repaint

[rufrob]

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[Bob Kontak]

Ouch.

Was there even primer on it?

For this car, I would much rather paint over original Glasurit than strip it to bare metal.

Try a chemical stripper on a few spots to see the results. Try a razor blade and soapy water. That paint might be a breeze if it was applied that poorly all over. A breeze is many days of your labor, of course, and you will find issues.

[Pauld_94S2]

To speed things up, because the bond between the bad paint and the original paint is poor, try a pressure washer to remove the bad paint. Seriously, it will save you a lot of hours.

Start from about a foot and away and see how quickly it removes the bad paint layer. Closer if it is more stubborn. Do not keep the pressure washer in one spot for very long, it will make a hole in the original paint. Pressure washer will not damage the galvanizing or the sheet metal if you work carefully.

You only have bad paint to lose!

[rufrob]

I agree that I really don't want to take off the original paint but I do wonder why it was painted in the first place. I like the idea of the power washer. I'll have to use one at a washer center near by but the clean-freak Japanese will look very disapprovingly and expect me to pick up the paint flakes with chopsticks.


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[Pauld_94S2]

You might be able to rent a pressure washer from a home improvement center and do the work at home, or some non-public area. You need something rated between 2000-3000 psi. Flow rate is not too important, but higher flow (gallons per hour) means more water and faster work.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Pauld_94S2

To speed things up, because the bond between the bad paint and the original paint is poor, try a pressure washer to remove the bad paint.

Outstanding thinking.

[rufrob]

I am also trying to find the best paint match for my S2. I got what I thought was the original light gold/metallic bamboo, but it was way too gold. The equivalent Japanese is I think K32
I made a mistake with yr525m
it looked like this


When I short out the S2 I'll tackle the red 951 one section at a time.


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