UPOL Raptor and similar coatings

[jpnovak]

I am getting far enough along on my 72 project to start thinking about the paint process. First, this is not a show or original car. I have resurrected it from the dead rust pile and have take a few liberties to build the car that I want. So...

The car will be painted back to its original Tangerine color. I have accumulated enough UPOL Gravitex to correctly treat the underside of the car. The plan was epoxy primer, gravitex and then paint to color. Some areas will be black and some will be body color - basically an interpretation of the correct 72 painting scheme.

Now, Here is where my question starts. If I coat with my scheme (primer, undercoating and then paint) this amounts to 3 steps and 3 different materials.

I recently came across some of the tintable undercoatings. Examples are Upol Raptor and the Monstaliner. Both of these can be tinted to match any color. The difference is that the tints must be binder free. The difference which I like is that the coating is color all the way through and I would only have to have 2 materials and coating sessions. This saves time and money.

I orrdered a sample patch of the Monstaliner and the texture is similar to what the factory product would be. I can get the Raptor tinted local at my jobber shop.

Has any one used the Raptor material? Does it dry rock hard like a spray on liner or remain slightly rubbery/compliant like Gravitex?

Was the application similar to the Gravitex? I will be using a Upol undercoating gun and am decent at it having coated a fuel tank.

Thanks for any suggestions/experiences you can provide. Just trying to save on materials and time here.

Thanks

Jamie

[jpnovak]

I guess I will experiment on my own. Will update once I get to this point in my build.

[lelix]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

I guess I will experiment on my own. Will update once I get to this point in my build.

This may go off on a slight tangent from your Monstaliner/Raptor question but...give thinned down seam sealer a try for an undercoating.
I've searched high and low for an OE comparable gravel guard and none of them come close to the texture and resiliency of the factory stuff. Yes, the UPOL gravitex can be tinted, but it is still just a bandaid solution since nothing better is commercially available.
The key is to thin a quality seam sealer down with a wax and grease remover(solvent based stuff, NOT paint thinner or anything of that matter since it will change the texture of the coating and the way it dries)
You can achieve the exact consistency of the body schutz and spray it out of a regular siphon(schutz) gun using a hand held cup(if you want to spray just a few test strips) OR an empty schutz can once you figure out the viscosity that you need for your project.

The coating will be extremely resilent yet go down as thick and "globby" as the OEM stuff. It will not shrink, crack and dry out like the Gravitex and is paintable.....and the best part..you can get it in the correct beige!

Give it a shot when you are experimenting with the Monstaliner and UPOL.

[78-911SC]

Jamie do a search on 962porsche. He is the resident expert here on the paint and bodywork forum. He has discussed this subject more than he cares to remember. Good luck. Love following your project.

[jpnovak]

PJ, I have read all the threads. The Gravitex is the go-to product for as close to factory replacement as we can currently get. There are threads of mixing white and black and a touch of blue to tint the factory "gray" color for gas tanks etc. There are even threads for tinting to match the off-white beige tan color for the underside coatings.

I am asking a different question about body color tinted undercoating products. I have not found any threads about tinting to full color. In my case I need tangerine colored undercoating. I want to shoot this because it saves significant prep and application time, not to mention material cost.

Dave (Flyn-hawn) is the only example of tinted Raptor I can find. In his case, it was blue on his RSR project.

I have ordered sample swatchs of the Monstaliner and it looks, texture-wise, very close to my original 71 targa undercoating. In this case, it was rolled on to make the sample and allowed to flow and settle. It also remains somewhat flexible.

Lelix, Interesting concept of thinning the seam sealer. I will give it a try.

[78-911SC]

Jamie my bad. I thought I had remembered you could tint to any color. Maybe if 962 is out there he can speak to your issue.

[962porsche]

seam sealer maybe pretty close to the color but it's a seam sealer not a chip guard product .
i tried it and it's not a match though if your doing a hole cars chassis it's hard to tell .
one problem with it is cost the sqr foot coverage per tube OMG you would be spending way to much to get the mill thickness you need . it's not recommended you reduce out seam sealer .
as for a chip guard cracking i have only seen this from user error not product failure .

bed liners make for a bad chip guard protection .
bed liners are great for scratches and to a point not chipping when the metal of a truck bed gets a dent . down sides are it's not any good at stopping the sandblasting from crap getting kicked up from your tires . why? because its a harder product then a chip guard . if you have ever sandblasted any thing you will know when it comes to a rubbery things it's total hell to sand blast it and when your sand blasting a harder surface it strips down pretty quickly .
the hole point to chip guards are they are designed for combating the sand blasting from your wheels kicking up crap .
the only plus to some bed liners are they can kind of be matched to the vehicles color . the reason i say kind of is it's not a 100% match as most are a milky white color so it's more then just taking the cars color and leaving out the binder and dumping into the bed liner . your limited to 10%

chip guards .
they are designed for fighting the sand blasting as i stated before .
you can also tint it up to 10% .
down side is your also screwed if your looking to get a dead nuts match for the body color . it's white gray or black .
i have never seen any failure with any ones chip guard if you go by the tds .
i have a dead nuts match to the OE color for the u-pol but i will not give it out . maybe some day ? but not now .
the problem with painting the underside of a chassis is its going to get beat to hell .
unless your building a show car i wouldn't think about it .
this is why i'm sure your looking for a product you can match the upper bodies color that will last and look good .
as for matching texture you can but it's hard as hell with the cheap guns most people buy .

[962porsche]

this it the type of gun you should use to get a proper match to any and all textures of chip guards on cars .
every thing is adjustable to obtain the 100% proper texture and mill builds .

you could do a epoxy primer one coat for coverage .
then spray your tinted chip guard ( tinted as close as possible to the upper body color .
then spray the real color with the maximum amount of flex additive in it to help combat sandblasting for the wheels kicking up crap .

[lelix]

Originally Posted by 962porsche

seam sealer maybe pretty close to the color but it's a seam sealer not a chip guard product .
i tried it and it's not a match though if your doing a hole cars chassis it's hard to tell .
one problem with it is cost the sqr foot coverage per tube OMG you would be spending way to much to get the mill thickness you need . it's not recommended you reduce out seam sealer .
as for a chip guard cracking i have only seen this from user error not product failure .

bed liners make for a bad chip guard protection .
bed liners are great for scratches and to a point not chipping when the metal of a truck bed gets a dent . down sides are it's not any good at stopping the sandblasting from crap getting kicked up from your tires . why? because its a harder product then a chip guard . if you have ever sandblasted any thing you will know when it comes to a rubbery things it's total hell to sand blast it and when your sand blasting a harder surface it strips down pretty quickly .
the hole point to chip guards are they are designed for combating the sand blasting from your wheels kicking up crap .
the only plus to some bed liners are they can kind of be matched to the vehicles color . the reason i say kind of is it's not a 100% match as most are a milky white color so it's more then just taking the cars color and leaving out the binder and dumping into the bed liner . your limited to 10%

chip guards .
they are designed for fighting the sand blasting as i stated before .
you can also tint it up to 10% .
down side is your also screwed if your looking to get a dead nuts match for the body color . it's white gray or black .
i have never seen any failure with any ones chip guard if you go by the tds .
i have a dead nuts match to the OE color for the u-pol but i will not give it out . maybe some day ? but not now .
the problem with painting the underside of a chassis is its going to get beat to hell .
unless your building a show car i wouldn't think about it .
this is why i'm sure your looking for a product you can match the upper bodies color that will last and look good .
as for matching texture you can but it's hard as hell with the cheap guns most people buy .

I agree with you 100% that a reduced seam sealer will not be as cost efficient as Gravitex, it will however, IF DONE PROPERLYbe a closer match to the factory texture than any "new age" water or solvent based Chip guard. Again, it HAS to be reduced by a wax and grease remover only, not paint thinner, acetone, etc as it will evaporate certain solvents in the seam sealer and change the build and its properties.
I have sprayed out numerous test panels with the latest and greatest (around 10 different products available on the Canadian, US and even OEM German markets) and none of them even come close. Gravitex will shrink and level out its stipple if applied in a thicker coat, it will also not hold its peaks. It is a great, readily available, cost efficient coating, don't get me wrong, but it is not an ideal solution for replicating factory undercoating.
If you don't believe me, spray out a few test pieces then cut out a 1 square inch piece of the coating and compare it with factory, the Gravitex will crumble in your hands at the first attempt at elasticity whereas the factory schutz will bend, stretch, yet return to its original state, a correctly thinned quality seam sealer will do the same, despite not carrying the "chip guard" label on the can.

What is the brand of that schutz gun? It looks like an awesome piece!

[962porsche]

as the rep for u-pol is one of my best friends he said it's not recommended to reduce out a seal sealer . not with any type of reduction product .
reduce is not reducer reduce meaning is bring something to a lower or weaker state .
i would like to see it stated in a tds were you could . the bottom line is seam sealer doesn't make for a good chip protection .
we tried it a few times found it's just not worth it even doing spot in repairs .
we never had any problems match todays chip guards to the old M3 solvent based . we did at 1st have to play around for a number of hours to get the same OE color as the old m3 chip guard but once we got the color the rest is very easy to match .

i don't remember just were i bought the chip guard guns .before i retired when i had my restoration shop open i bought a bunch of them from an on line vendor .

[Dpmulvan]

I painted my golf cart with upol raptor bedliner, while I agree with 962 and would not use it for a Chipgaurd it's an awesome product for other projects. It was easy to mix, tint and spray and looks great, plus it's tough as hell.