Porsche Classic 10w-60 Motor Oil

[hcalvani]

Hi Folks,

I know the "good ole" oil discussion for the Porsche...

But I recently switched to using the Porsche Classic 10w-60 oil for my '88 Turbo (original engine w/ 56K miles). I had been using 15w-50 Mobil for the last 8 years.

The car always smokes (the initial puff) at start-up and I always observed a few/minor oil dime-to-quarter spot sizes on the ground after usage - while driving throughout all seasons in the Mid-Atlantic region. But since I changed to 10w-60, I no longer see the smoke at start-up and oil leaks after turning the engine off.

Granted, I have only been driving the car during the summer (temperatures) since the oil was changed, so I assume the higher viscosity at higher temperature helps to mitigate the leaks (not sure how it would help suppress the smoke at start-up).

Perhaps during the winter months, I will once again see the return of small oil leaks, with the lower oil viscosity at lower temperatures. But I will stick to the 10w-60 oil, since the car gets driven more during the warmer temperature months anyway.

Needless to say, the car seems overall happier with the Porsche Classic oil

Have any folks switched to 10w-60 and can confirm these observations?

Thanks,

Humberto-

[Uwon]

Interesting. Hope some others will chime in with their experience.

[rwest]

Another similar data point: I was running Mobil 1 for years; switched to Brad Penn last year and my oil leaks slowed down noticeably- I suspect something in the formulation of the full synthetic Mobil 1 affects the seals.

[LIRS6]

Strongly recommended by the shop that rebuilt my engine - so I'm using it.

[speednme1]

Valvoline VR1 Racing oil was the one I used one my previous 930. Plenty of zddp to keep that engine happy.

[WP0ZZZ]

Originally Posted by hcalvani

I assume the higher viscosity at higher temperature helps to mitigate the leaks (not sure how it would help suppress the smoke at start-up).

Actually, viscosity decreases as temperature increases!

[Arne2]

The only leaks my '84 3.2 has had over my 7 years of ownership is when the pressure sender failed. Other than that, it's totally dry and drip free. Doesn't smoke at all.

So I couldn't use either of those criteria to tell if one oil was better than another. Car had Mobil 1 15W-50 when I bought it, I changed shortly to 20W-50 Brad Penn and noticed no difference at all. Later I switched to VR-1 because it was easily available locally, and noticed quieter valve noise immediately. I've been on VR-1 since.

Curious to hear other comments about the Porsche Classic oil, though.

[hcalvani]

Originally Posted by WP0ZZZ

Actually, viscosity decreases as temperature increases!

No, the point here is that 10w-60 has a higher viscosity than 15w-50 at high temperature (i.e, the second number is the viscosity at 100 °C (212 °F))... Hence, the thicker grade oil at high temperature should seal better than the lower viscosity oil.

Cheers,
Humberto-

[WP0ZZZ]

Originally Posted by hcalvani

No, the point here is that 10w-60 has a higher viscosity than 15w-50 at high temperature (i.e, the second number is the viscosity at 100 °C (212 °F))... Hence, the thicker grade oil at high temperature should seal better than the lower viscosity oil.

Cheers,
Humberto-

Cool. Sorry I had misunderstood you.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by hcalvani

No, the point here is that 10w-60 has a higher viscosity than 15w-50 at high temperature (i.e, the second number is the viscosity at 100 °C (212 °F))... Hence, the thicker grade oil at high temperature should seal better than the lower viscosity oil.

Cheers,
Humberto-

They leak when they sit, the more they sit the more they leak.

all that aluminum heats up and expands, it seals better that way. When it sits it contracts and leaks.

read your freaking owners manual for the correct oil weight, I guarantee that it's not 10w-60.

[hcalvani]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

They leak when they sit, the more they sit the more they leak.

all that aluminum heats up and expands, it seals better that way. When it sits it contracts and leaks.

read your freaking owners manual for the correct oil weight, I guarantee that it's not 10w-60.

Yes, I realized that. The point is that the car no longer leaks while it sits when using 10w-60- did you read my initial post?

Porsche is now making updated motor oil recommendations for classic Porsches based on their research & development efforts and engineering resources, coupled with their extensive experience with air cooled engines - needless to say, I think this holds a certain validity!

If you don't trust and question Porsche's engineers at Weissach on an update on motor oil recommendation, how can you even trust the more complex system integration and testing of a Porsche, along with their validation prior to leaving the factory?

Research and technology simply does not remain static...But if it makes you feel more comfortable/happy to abide to the information written on an owner's manual decades ago, and ignore the recommendation from the vendor, based on new/comprehensive testing, by all means go for it.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by hcalvani

Yes, I realized that. The point is that the car no longer leaks while it sits when using 10w-60- did you read my initial post?

Porsche is now making updated motor oil recommendations for classic Porsches based on their research & development efforts and engineering resources, coupled with their extensive experience with air cooled engines - needless to say, I think this holds a certain validity!

If you don't trust and question Porsche's engineers at Weissach on an update on motor oil recommendation, how can you even trust the more complex system integration and testing of a Porsche, along with their validation prior to leaving the factory?

Research and technology simply does not remain static...But if it makes you feel more comfortable/happy to abide to the information written on an owner's manual decades ago, and ignore the recommendation from the vendor, based on new testing, by all means go for it.

Yes, I read it, lots of trivial, pseudo information and short term personal opinion.

The owners manual was written by the engineers that designed and built the car. The oil spec is based on the internal clearances, pressures, temps and forces know to be present. They were not written by someone trying to sell what may be a fine product but which also may be snake oil. Oil weight matters to engineers that expect clearances to be be of a certain value and oil of a spec to properly run in them.

No I don't trust the Porsche recommendations, they do what's best for them, which is not the same as what is good for their customers. They have a history of poor advice.

case in point their oil recommendation of M1 0W-40 all through the 2000s right up till they started selling their own oil. This is a marginal oil for air cooled 911, it is great for their newer cars.


If you think that their oil is good for your car, great, but others basing their choice on your opinion is not so great.

There are multiple good 15w-40 or 15w-50 or 20w-50 oils out there that have served well for the past 40 years, given their excellent track record I'd suggest using one of them.

You do need to do some research to be sure that the formulations have not been adversely changed

I have read all these all threads and my opinion is that many of the posters seem to have some hidden agenda. If you want to try the latest and greatest wonderful, come back in 30yrs and then we can properly evaluate the result of your experiments.

It would behoove everyone to be wary of such

[RSTarga]

I second Bill, I've been using Mobil 1 15w-50 for decades in 100 degree temperatures. I have never had a problem. My experience too, if you want to avoid oil leaks, drive your car.
I'll be happy to take advice on Porsche oil after it's been in use for 5 years or so.

[DWeg1998]

Well said
Would be nice for Porsche to release some specs on their new oil and talk about where it came from, who made it, why it is recommended. But it’s got a great looking can.

[hcalvani]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Yes, I read it, lots of trivial, pseudo information and short term personal opinion.

The owners manual was written by the engineers that designed and built the car. The oil spec is based on the internal clearances, pressures, temps and forces know to be present. They were not written by someone trying to sell what may be a fine product but which also may be snake oil. Oil weight matters to engineers that expect clearances to be be of a certain value and oil of a spec to properly run in them.

No I don't trust the Porsche recommendations, they do what's best for them, which is not the same as what is good for their customers. They have a history of poor advice.

case in point their oil recommendation of M1 0W-40 all through the 2000s right up till they started selling their own oil. This is a marginal oil for air cooled 911, it is great for their newer cars.


If you think that their oil is good for your car, great, but others basing their choice on your opinion is not so great.

There are multiple good 15w-40 or 15w-50 or 20w-50 oils out there that have served well for the past 40 years, given their excellent track record I'd suggest using one of them.

You do need to do some research to be sure that the formulations have not been adversely changed

I have read all these all threads and my opinion is that many of the posters seem to have some hidden agenda. If you want to try the latest and greatest wonderful, come back in 30yrs and then we can properly evaluate the result of your experiments.

It would behoove everyone to be wary of such

Folks,

Making/sharing the observations after driving the car consistently for multiple runs is hardly pseudo information and personal opinion.

And for the record, there is no hidden agenda on my post! No need to be paranoid.

I should have realized that making a new post related to motor oil, especially if it is made by Porsche would be a hot topic.

Anyway, I strongly disagree on the one-sided statement regarding Porsche with respect to advice and customer satisfaction - it is just not black and white.

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Best,

Humberto-

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

read your freaking owners manual ...

Sigh, we just can't have a good technical discussion on the ole oil topic without this ...

OP, sorry about this, your anecdotal experience is of value in itself.

This will be my only post in this thread.

[hcalvani]

Originally Posted by pmax

Sigh, we just can't have a good technical discussion on the ole oil topic without this ...

OP, sorry about this, your anecdotal experience is of value in itself.

This will be my only post in this thread.

Exactly, thanks, pmax.

There was absolutely no need to get defensive/rude/arrogant over this.

Cheers,

Humberto-

[adias]

Originally Posted by DWeg1998

Well said
Would be nice for Porsche to release some specs on their new oil and talk about where it came from, who made it, why it is recommended. But it’s got a great looking can.

I suspect that the Porsche Classic Oil is the euro version of Castrol.

I used Brad Penn 20W50 (a blend) for 3 years and have this year switched to Valvoline VR1 20W50 Racing oil and could not be happier. I think these engines do better with strict mineral oil. JMO.

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by hcalvani

Yes, I realized that. The point is that the car no longer leaks while it sits when using 10w-60- did you read my initial post?

Porsche is now making updated motor oil recommendations for classic Porsches based on their research & development efforts and engineering resources, coupled with their extensive experience with air cooled engines - needless to say, I think this holds a certain validity!

If you don't trust and question Porsche's engineers at Weissach on an update on motor oil recommendation, how can you even trust the more complex system integration and testing of a Porsche, along with their validation prior to leaving the factory?

Research and technology simply does not remain static...But if it makes you feel more comfortable/happy to abide to the information written on an owner's manual decades ago, and ignore the recommendation from the vendor, based on new/comprehensive testing, by all means go for it.

This is all great....if it were true. I highly doubt Porsche is putting any R&D effort or devoting many resources to our antiquated air cooled engines. To what end?

Most likely the impetus behind the Porsche Classic Oil was from the endless threads and debates on the internet about "the best" oil for classic 911's. Someone in Marketing saw an opportunity. They either referenced what was already established (30,40,50yrs ago) by the engineers who designed and built the engines and used that or solicited whoever makes the oil to find a product that they think is acceptable for the intended use.

[David 23]

Is a new air cooled higher performance engine build, using new aftermarket performance parts (ie: JE pistons, LN Nickies etc.) and careful assembly, considered to have different oil requirements than the stock '70s era 911 engine? My guess is yes, but I'm curious how others view this. I am having an engine built like this, and will likely use a full synthetic oil unless I'm given evidence to convince me otherwise.