did 74-77 have external cooler as an option ?

[theiceman]

Working on a friends 74-77 car which earlier in its life had a 3.0 litre put in it .

we were uncrushing the oil lines put in by a shop lift.

I was thinking maybe it was done because shop thinking it was a 77 and no external cooler.
However when we put the oi lines back on ( at the point I got involved ) I noticed all the hardware was in place like the stud at the back for the two oil lines the mounting points up front for the cooler etc. almost like it came from the factory with the external oil cooler.

can anyone shed any light ?
Thanks

[75 911s]

1. The shop doesn't know, and doesn't care. No one knows about oil lines that run up the side. They get crushed all the time. You gotta be vigilant if ever taking your car somewhere that isn't a Porsche shop.
2. I know for sure the 75 911S has the mounting bosses and stud for the front oil cooler, but obviously didn't come with a front mounted cooler. I believe all US 911S 75-77 did NOT come with the front cooler. I'm not sure on the 74. The reason why I'm not sure is that the 75 was the first year (California designation model) that they had to beat emissions standards. The lack of a cooler helped the motor run hot to burn up emissions.
3. Did the US 75-77 Carrera have a standard front oil cooler? Doubt it as they ran the same engine, but I don't know.
4. Bean counters, safety, and emissions. With the design impact bumper change in 74, Porsche did some cost cutting measures, (like listing the 911 base price with steelies - but NO ONE got a 911 with steelies ---- ok someone out there did, but kind of misleading. Most got the cookies, or even Fuchs. Increase costs in safety measures like the IB made cutting the cooler probably a good proposition for the wimpy US motors of 75-77.

Bottom line is I believe the front cooler was an option for all US 74-77 911S and Carrera models. Hopefully some midyear experts will chime in, or Carrera owners with COA to see if it was optional. All the mounting tabs should be on all cars up the right side.

[1979-930]

I have a 74 with the cooler option. It is just a trombone cooler though.


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[75 911s]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

I have a 74 with the cooler option. It is just a trombone cooler though.


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Yeah I think up to the SC, if your car had a front cooler, the trombone loop was the standard, with the brass cooler being either an option or designated for special builds. The Carrera cooler came with ...well the Carrera in 84.

[SC-targa]

Didn’t the Carreras originally use the 28 tube cooler?

[Flat6pac]

The way it was..76/77
No factory air, no cooler
Dealer air, no cooler
77 factory air, console with controls in console. Air, no console, dealer installed, no cooler.
Bruce

[theiceman]

so sounds like the mounting hardware was on all models regardless.

so I have to imagine it came on earlier cars , they took them off from 74-77 as standard but left all the mounting points in place, then reintroduced it for the SC with the 3.0 litre which would require it.
Make sense ?

made it easier ( like in this case ) for guys to retrofit.

my comment about the shop crushing it .. was meant to say even a specialized Porsche shop might make that mistake seeing 77 on the work order and assuming no cooler and throwing the lift under.. still would be shody work though .

BTW we did use the comprerssor and heat method to repair them and it worked amazingly well.

[theiceman]

Bruce , you are going to have to live forever for these facts alone

lol

[Jack Stands]

We were stuck with the 55mph speed limit back in those days, so Porsche figured they could get by without a front cooler (to save costs obviously).

[SalParadise]

It was an option. My car does not have one - it's a '75 California car bought from Vasek Polack. Amazing they did not add them, especially from that dealership. The original owner spent the money on Koni suspension, dealer-installed AC, Fuchs and the like. Go figure.

[1979-930]

^^^ Most car sales guys are just salesman. They don’t know squat about cars.
Only a real car guy would have told the buyer he needed to add the cooler.





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[fintstone]

Although they will never admit it, most shops have never worked on...or know anything about these cars. When I took mine to get it inspected, I watched through the window and saw the entire workforce come over as look under the front bumper, I went out and asked what were they looking for...and they said they wanted to know how to open it. Thinking they were looking for the spare, I reached inside the car and opened it and lifted the cover off the spare. They looked puzzled...and one asked, "where is the engine?".

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

It was an option. My car does not have one - it's a '75 California car bought from Vasek Polack. Amazing they did not add them, especially from that dealership. The original owner spent the money on Koni suspension, dealer-installed AC, Fuchs and the like. Go figure.

Back in '74, '75, it was not known that the increase to 2.7l (And the addition of emissions equipment (Thermal reactors and 5 blade fan in '75) would create the engine longevity/overheating problems that it did. The coolers were pretty rare. Of course, since American manufacturers were chunking out practically disposable cars at the time (designed not to last too terribly long), maybe it was intentional to incentivize people to buy new more often.

There have always been plenty of wrecked donors to cannibalize for their systems from the '80s forward.

[vansicklenmi]

My 75 Carrera came with a trombone cooler in the right front fender.

[fintstone]

Yes, I understand it was standard on Carreras. This is what the PP Tech article has to say on the topic:

"In 1969 on the 911S, a front mounted radiator-style cooler was mounted as standard equipment in the front right fender well. In 1973, the newer trombone, serpentine, loop or cooling pipe cooler as it was called, replaced the radiator style cooler. This style of oil cooler was used through 1983. The cooler was standard equipment on the 1973 911S, as well as the 1974-75 Carreras, but was optional on all other models up to 1977. In 1980, Porsche began using a 28-tube all-brass oil cooler in place of the trombone cooler (Figure 1) on all European 911SCs and Turbos. This cooler was claimed to have reduced the operating temperatures over the trombone cooler by 30 degrees F. The trombone cooler remained in place in the US, primarily because changing the operating temperature of the engine would affect emissions ratings."
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_carrera_oil_cooler/911_carrera_oil_cooler.htm

I have read similar elsewhere. The definitive book back in the day, The Porsche 911 Performance Handbook, by Bruce Andersen has a great deal of detail on the topic (and everything else Porsche-related). https://books.google.com/books?id=rOKlQ0ZzL6cC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=external+oil+cooler+standard+carrera+bruce+ande rson&source=bl&ots=IDijKIfind&sig=7jcexIQqdA9iWlAuAAGcmKY6M4k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiP9pqm9tHcAhWQ1lMKHWiOAp4Q6AEwBXoECAkQA Q#v=onepage&q=external%20oil%20cooler%20standard%20carrera%20b ruce%20anderson&f=false

[group911@aol.co]

Actually, no. I had a new 75 US Carrera that didn't have one. They could be referring to the Euro Carrera's though.

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yes, I understand it was standard on Carreras. This is what the PP Tech article has to say on the topic:

"In 1969 on the 911S, a front mounted radiator-style cooler was mounted as standard equipment in the front right fender well. In 1973, the newer trombone, serpentine, loop or cooling pipe cooler as it was called, replaced the radiator style cooler. This style of oil cooler was used through 1983. The cooler was standard equipment on the 1973 911S, as well as the 1974-75 Carreras, but was optional on all other models up to 1977. In 1980, Porsche began using a 28-tube all-brass oil cooler in place of the trombone cooler (Figure 1) on all European 911SCs and Turbos. This cooler was claimed to have reduced the operating temperatures over the trombone cooler by 30 degrees F. The trombone cooler remained in place in the US, primarily because changing the operating temperature of the engine would affect emissions ratings."
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_carrera_oil_cooler/911_carrera_oil_cooler.htm

I have read similar elsewhere. The definitive book back in the day, The Porsche 911 Performance Handbook, by Bruce Andersen has a great deal of detail on the topic (and everything else Porsche-related). https://books.google.com/books?id=rOKlQ0ZzL6cC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=external+oil+cooler+standard+carrera+bruce+ande rson&source=bl&ots=IDijKIfind&sig=7jcexIQqdA9iWlAuAAGcmKY6M4k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiP9pqm9tHcAhWQ1lMKHWiOAp4Q6AEwBXoECAkQA Q#v=onepage&q=external%20oil%20cooler%20standard%20carrera%20b ruce%20anderson&f=false

[frankc]

As Flat6pac states, it is my understanding that the US mid-year cars delivered with factory installed A/C got the Trombone cooler.

My '77 was ordered with factory A/C (now removed), and had the front Trombone cooler (replaced with a 28-tube brass cooler).

[IROC]

My ROW ‘76 came with the cooler (trombone). No AC.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by frankc

As Flat6pac states, it is my understanding that the US mid-year cars delivered with factory installed A/C got the Trombone cooler.

My '77 was ordered with factory A/C (now removed), and had the front Trombone cooler (replaced with a 28-tube brass cooler).

Far as I know, there was no factory-installed AC before 1977 but I could be wrong. Reason I am saying this is that Vasek put it on my car from new and as delivered - and they would have put it on there in Stuttgart like they put on the Konis, the Fuchs, the electric antennae, radio, etc if it were available as an option.

[speedster911]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yes, I understand it was standard on Carreras. This is what the PP Tech article has to say on the topic:

"In 1969 on the 911S, a front mounted radiator-style cooler was mounted as standard equipment in the front right fender well. In 1973, the newer trombone, serpentine, loop or cooling pipe cooler as it was called, replaced the radiator style cooler. This style of oil cooler was used through 1983. The cooler was standard equipment on the 1973 911S, as well as the 1974-75 Carreras, but was optional on all other models up to 1977. In 1980, Porsche began using a 28-tube all-brass oil cooler in place of the trombone cooler (Figure 1) on all European 911SCs and Turbos. This cooler was claimed to have reduced the operating temperatures over the trombone cooler by 30 degrees F. The trombone cooler remained in place in the US, primarily because changing the operating temperature of the engine would affect emissions ratings."
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_carrera_oil_cooler/911_carrera_oil_cooler.htm

I have read similar elsewhere. The definitive book back in the day, The Porsche 911 Performance Handbook, by Bruce Andersen has a great deal of detail on the topic (and everything else Porsche-related). https://books.google.com/books?id=rOKlQ0ZzL6cC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=external+oil+cooler+standard+carrera+bruce+ande rson&source=bl&ots=IDijKIfind&sig=7jcexIQqdA9iWlAuAAGcmKY6M4k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiP9pqm9tHcAhWQ1lMKHWiOAp4Q6AEwBXoECAkQA Q#v=onepage&q=external%20oil%20cooler%20standard%20carrera%20b ruce%20anderson&f=false

Not standard on Carreras- it was an option. As others have stated, it was the trombone cooler.

My 74 Carrera - no cooler ( stripper car- No AC, No sunroof , No radio)
My 75 Carrera - trombone cooler. COA lists it as added factory option / No AC