Maintenance cost for 911

[pnb]

Hello,
I am looking for some advice regarding a purchase of a Porsche 911. The one I have in mind and plan to buy is a Porsche 1982 SC Targa. Found one which pretty much what I was looking for based on available budget. However friend of mind recommend me not to buy it because of the maintenance cost and the stress to keep the car running. Now this is not going to be my daily car rather than a weekend/joy car which I properly only use once a month. So he said if I buy 70 and 80 Porsche 911 I will have more stress than fun because I am not a mechanic. He recommend me to buy a 993 instead. Already fall in love with Porsche 1982 SC Targa but a bit scare of the warning stress. SO I am writing this to get second, third opinion/advice. Thanks for any advice/recommendation.

[RSBob]

You are looking at buying a 36 year old car. Let that sink in.

Even if the car is relatively low mileage and well maintained things will wear out and go south. I don’t know what you currently drive but Porsche parts carry a premium price tag, especially if installed by a shop. Targas have their own host of issues regarding water ingress. A redone top can cost $2K.

Owning these cars are not an inexpensive proposition, but they are wonderful cars unlike anything else you will ever own. The sound, the direct steering feel, the heritage, the exclusivity is so unique. The phrase, You pay to play, comes to mind.

993s are wonderful cars too, but with a higher cash entry point, so the cash outlay for an 82 needing work versus a 993 not needing much might be a push. Many who have tried 993s and newer have gone back to the rawness of the driver experience of the older cars.

There is a shop worn phrase used here 100 times, buy the best Porsche you can afford, and man is it ever true because you will end up paying for lesser ones big time in repairs. Don’t fall for the first pretty face unless it has been well taken care of with receipts to back it up.

Back in 82 I bought a 72 targa that I fell in love with. Not knowing anything then, other than lust, boy did I ever pay for it in repairs. 1/2 burnt wiring harness, bad targa top, needed a $10K engine rebuild, needed shocks and struts and new paint. Lust got in the way of better sense. Keep yours and by all means get a pre-purchase inspection by an independent Porsche shop. Tell people here where you live and they wil ID them.

Best of luck.

[Bill Douglas]

Have a local porsche mechanic look at it with you. He will know pretty quickly if it's a good car to own or not. And if he is comfortable about looking after it for you. they are not complicated, just different.

[Noah930]

Everyone has a different tolerance for maintenance costs. Everyone has different concepts of expensive vs cheap. But you're looking to buy a 36 year-old car. Anything can go south at any moment.

At the same time, I've found my 31 year-old Porsche to be quite reliable. Things generally don't break. While parts are more expensive than those for my Honda, they're not ridiculously expensive, either. The bigger problem is if parts are NLA (no longer available). Fortunately, Porsche built a lot of 911s over a lot of years, so that isn't too bad, either. In the 13 years and 40K miles I've had my car, I haven't regretted the cost of maintenence one bit. Granted, an engine or transmission rebuild can run you $5-10K, and a clutch $2-3K for a shop to do, but for just routine maintenance I can't imagine more than a few hundred dollars annually.

Good luck with your search.

[pmax]

Maintenance costwise, that SC isn't a Honda or Toyota. However, if you are one who owns a luxury make and brings your car to the dealer for maintenance, I wager the SC will be cheaper to own.

The 80s engines are a huge advancement in reliability over those in the 70s. Not sure if the 993 or 964 improved much on that score. The SC targa is a great fun car. I would forget about what your friend recommends and just go with it if the car speaks to you !

[pnb]

Thanks all for your advice. The one I am looking at has transmission and clutch rebuild by Porsche USA and only driven 500 miles since. I am not sure whether owner allow me to take it to pre-puchase inspection before "done deal" but will ask anyway. Thanks a bunch.

[OldSpool87]

Originally Posted by pnb

Thanks all for your advice. The one I am looking at has transmission and clutch rebuild by Porsche USA and only driven 500 miles since. I am not sure whether owner allow me to take it to pre-puchase inspection before "done deal" but will ask anyway. Thanks a bunch.

I’d think hard if the seller will not accommodate a PPI after price is negotiated. It’s a common practice and is some of the best money you can spend on a 911.

[L Sjoberg]

If you buy the right car and are willing to learn to do the basic maintenance stuff yourself, that SC will be the most reliable and cost-effective vehicle you will ever own. The SC's are incredibly easy to work on and are nearly indestructible when regularly maintained - we've had our car nearly 25 years and it has proven 10,000 times more dependable than any of the Fords, Chryslers, VW's or BMW's we have owned.

As between an SC and a 993, I would never let fear of maintenance be my decision driver, but rather the price of the right car, i.e. given the choice between spending 35-40k on an SC versus 45-50k on a 993, I would opt for the 993 all day long.

[porsche930dude]

You are better off with the sc because its older and less complicated than the 993. Also parts are cheaper I think. My sc isnt in the best shape and all iv had to do to it in the past 12 years is oil changes. Everything else i have done was just because the parts were getting old and degraded. Insurance is super cheap through hagerty or other because its not a daily driver. If you pay a specialist to fix it any Porsche will be expensive. But because of forums like this you dont have to.

[RNajarian]

As stated earlier your starting point is very important. A solid car as verified by a PPI is a great start. Nevertheless, things fail- recently my alternator went bad. I was able to source a reasonably priced replacement (our host has very competitive prices) and with Wayne Dempsey’s “101 Projects for your Porsche 911” and with guidance from this forum was able to replace the alternator in an afternoon. Likely a shop would have charged 3 hours of book time (3 x $120 = $360) and $350 part with a bill around $800. It cost me about $300 and one afternoon as a DIY project.

Two months ago, with parts from Pelican, Wayne’s Book and guidance from the forum I was able to upgrade my front trombone cooler to a Carrera style radiator cooler.

The point is that for most/many people here are DIYers. Occasionally we need to outsource the bigger jobs. All the old timers here love the Art of the Air Cooled 911s. We will post our latest and greatest upgrades and share our experience with others.

Unless your friend is familiar with the air cooled 911 I would take his advice with a grain of salt. I started with a rust free 1975 S Targa and an ‘83 SC motor that I had a good history. Since then maintenance hasn’t been a problem.

As for the Targa top, I got lucky, my 1975 Targa came with the rare factory hard top. I would definitely try and source one of those (or an aftermarket equivalent).

Over the years I have been able to stockpile spare parts. Currently I have both a clean folding and hard Targa top, spare speedometers, tachs, clocks, tail/parking lights, etc etc. 6 years ago my odometer went bad. I had a spare (actually 2) so I swapped the part with one I picked up on eBay for $50. One of these days I might even get to repairing the odometer, probably when I run out of spares.

[gazzerr]

My experience is the same as RNajarian. I don't think you can get a pile of scrap for 20K now but when I first got into this circus the rule of thumb was that if you spent 10K or 15K (ha! - remember the good old days?) an SC was a 20K to 25K car to own. I haven't found Porker parts prices generally all that bad. Most are quite reasonable and others stupid but I've probably put a few thousand into the car in parts and done all the maintenance myself. Finding and stockpiling parts is part of the fun. Mine needs probably 2K more to refresh the suspension to make it really top tier if I did all the repairs myself.

My SC has definitely been cheaper to own and more reliable than my last modern BMW for sure. It's a solid car.

The PPI is key and you have to buy the best car you can stretch to. If the motor is solid (watch out for head stud issues - big $$$ - recent refresh is good), gearbox good (915 synchros), and you have no significant rust issues then the rest is deferred maintenance and misc repair costs (budget 5K). Check for wiring issues. Most of my repairs were electrical. Significant savings can be achieved by diving in and doing it yourself. Buying tools is fun too .

[chrismorse]

A 36 year old car can need just about anything.
To avoid huge repair bills, you need to know what condition the car is in, before you buy the car.
Before the PPI, (pre purchase inspection), get all available service receipts from the owner,so the mechanic can see 1 if the car was serviced regularly, 2, what major items were attended to, 3, any accident repairs, 4, any reoccurring leaks,electrical problems or ongoing issues. It is common practice for the mechanic to note on the receipt, any needed or upcoming repairs. These will be of interest to the PPI mechanic.
PPI
A tiny bit of rust is manageable, lots of rust is a deal killer.
You need to know what condition the engine is in, so a compression and leak down test are needed, (10 yoars ago, my dad spent $11,000 on a top end overhaul on his 74).
It would be helpful to you to have an understanding of what work needs to be to the car right now and in the future, oil leaks, axle boots, leaky exhaust, loose/worn suspension bushings, tires/alignment, brake condition.
Without a thorough PPI.........
Good luck
Chris

[darrin]

agree with the above, ppi is key and a buyer should budget a fair amount of money up front to address/resolve "deferred maintenance issues" and get the car dialed in.

However, once dialed in, these cars should be both simple and reliable. I.E., suspect you'll find the targa top to be noisy up front (it's old and relatively few folks know/knew how to properly adjust in the first place). However, once dialed in, it should stay the same and work fine for a decade.

Similarly, while the sc's cis injection system needs to be properly set up and dialed in, once working right it should continue to do so for quite some time (sensing a pattern here?)

My '86 carrera (which I'm driving over 10k miles a year), is"dialed in." I occasionally need to replace/repair stuff (such as the alternator or a leaky oil line), but since all systems are working as designed (which took some time to accomplish), maintenance now centers on oil changes and periodic replacement of other wear items (e.g. - just replaced my rear brake pads and rotors as the pads were at wear limits and the rotors had developed ridges and were at end of life specs) --

[Hi_Fi_Guy]

Yes, Virginia, there is a Porsche tax... My 2¢

Porsche falls into this weird zone where it is not as exotic as Ferrari, Lamborghini, or McLaren but is considered much more exotic than most American, British, Japanese performance cars. Because of this the price of parts and service are much more expensive than similar cost on other cars.

New Porsches are rarely money pits and if they are, thank goodness for the warrantee. I've owned a handful of new models between 2000 and today and while they were not expensive to run when something did go wrong... rear main seal... it always seemed to happen just out of warrantee.

On the other end newer exotics, Lambo, F-Cars, etc. can actually be cheaper to run per year than new Porsches. At least it was for me and that's putting about 1500 miles per year on each.

When it comes to vintage Porsches the "Porsche Tax" is real. I'm constantly astounded at parts prices compared with other American and European cars. It's outrageous. Also, for all of the talk of Porsche's engineering prowess and reliability I have yet to purchase a vintage Porsche that doesn't need $10,000-$20,000 worth of parts and labor just to get the car back to the condition it should have been in when being sold. As the old joke goes the cheapest thing in a Porsche is the owner and deferred maintenance is the biggest battle we are fighting on these cars. It seems to be easier to find non-P-cars that have been maintained to a very high standard over many years. As an example, 30-50 year old American and Japanese cars I have purchased typically take $2500-$5000 for similar repairs so yes Virginia, there is a Porsche tax!

Add on top of that the engineering we love also makes some repairs more work than on other cars, alternator replacement as an example, and you can see how the expense adds up. If you can do some or all of the wrenching yourself it will save you a ton of $$$ and the more you learn about the car the better sense you will have for preventative maintenance to ensure fewer issues arise in the future.

After all of that I continue to buy, repair, and enjoy these cars. Maybe I'm a masochist, maybe the 911 and 914 are just that good. You'll have to judge for yourself.

[monkeyodeath]

If you're looking to minimize maintenance expenses, definitely don't choose the 993 over the SC.

The 993 may be newer, but there's more (and more expensive) stuff to go wrong. The SC was a stone hammer in comparison.

Look, any old and fun car is going to need more maintenance than the typical car on the road today. It's just part of the deal. I've had old Hondas and Toyotas, and I was constantly working on those things.

That being said, an old 911 is just about one of the most reliable exotics you can buy. Parts aren't cheap, but this is a car that can get 200k before any kind of major engine work, which is pretty rare for this type of vehicle.

[RDM]

Originally Posted by Hi_Fi_Guy

Yes, Virginia, there is a Porsche tax... My 2¢

Porsche falls into this weird zone where it is not as exotic as Ferrari, Lamborghini, or McLaren but is considered much more exotic than most American, British, Japanese performance cars. Because of this the price of parts and service are much more expensive than similar cost on other cars.

Given 1) the age of the car and 2) the volume of the parts produced, I'd be hesitant to say that parts prices are out of line. The alternative is, thatparts aren't available. For instance, my 14 year old Alfa is parked right now because it needs a fuel injector that is no longer made.

Economics- supply/demand. Be grateful the parts are available, at whatever cost.

Originally Posted by Hi_Fi_Guy

Also, for all of the talk of Porsche's engineering prowess and reliability I have yet to purchase a vintage Porsche that doesn't need $10,000-$20,000 worth of parts and labor just to get the car back to the condition it should have been in when being sold. As the old joke goes the cheapest thing in a Porsche is the owner...

Or perhaps the buyer. I think you're doing it wrong.

[QueWhy]

I get asked a lot about maintenance cost. I usually tell people "Parts are shockingly expensive but available, fortunately it's been quite reliable and when something does break it's easy to fix with common tools"

A PPI is a great tool in helping you decided on a car but it's not the end all be all. There are plenty of stories of major issues being missed. The feeling you get from the car, the seller, verifiable history, etc. should all be weighed in your decision.

Originally Posted by RSBob

There is a shop worn phrase used here 100 times, buy the best Porsche you can afford, and man is it ever true because you will end up paying for lesser ones big time in repairs. Don’t fall for the first pretty face unless it has been well taken care of with receipts to back it up.

I think this advice can steer just as many people wrong as it helps. Blowing your entire budget up front is no guarantee. The best 911 SC I could afford would have been a mint condition extremely low mileage $50k garage queen. A car like that which isn't driven is likely to be a maintenance nightmare. Instead I took a different approach. I decided what was important to me; a car I could drive and enjoy. I made a list of things I could live with, things I couldn't live without and things that were deal killers. Then I looked for the cheapest car that fit the bill and my upfront cost was half of the best car I could afford.

[nixtfy]

Get a PPI and buy the best one you can afford. I learned the hard way. My first SC had deferred maintenance and needed a tranny after one year. Do yourself a favor and avoid the entry level bargain Porsche. A car with needs at purchase probably has other lurking needs. I find these to be very reliable and maintenance at times is a little pricey, but you will make it up on the back end. There are few cars you can sell for the same or more than what you paid for it.

I would also ask around about cars for sale. (Mechanic). Typically my mechanic will have a few customer cars on a for sale board.

The targa is a great value. I have owned 2 coupes and have been most satisfied with my present targa. Good luck

[Steam Driver]

My two cents worth on parts costs and availability. As owner of both an SC and a ‘91 Honda CRX Si I can tell you that Porsche vs. Honda parts comparison is a bad example. Honda thinks a LOT of their parts. The CRX’s ignition recently suffered a terminal collapse and the parts alone came to around $800! Not a lot less than a Porsche distributor, maybe more. (I should mention here though there were 278K miles on the original items.)

Also, for a lot of older Honda’s you can forget it. Not near the availability of with a Porsche. For example (one fresh in my mind) sunroof parts. You can get almost everything for sunroof repair on the 911, everything on the Honda is “NLA.”

[Canada Kev]

I have limited experience - only one old Porsche - but it's been pretty bulletproof with little maintenance required.

With that being said, I replace or repair stuff as needed, and do the regular maintenance any car would need. I change the oil annually ($100 CAD), valve adjustments, plugs, fuel filters, caps and rotors, etc. And I do all that stuff myself.

Only one thing likely could have left me stranded on this car in the last decade or 50K miles: the voltage regulator.

I've replaced an axle due to a plot boot and mostly dry CV. The new axle cost less than the new front one I needed on my 325. I've found that maintenance parts aren't that far off in cost than other cars of this age.

I'm sure there are other things that I fixed or parts upgraded or replaced just because I wanted to. My memory is good but kinda short sometimes.

The PPI is a pretty big thing. If the seller doesn't want you to have one done, I think I'd look elsewhere.

If you're handy, these cars are pretty basic and there's lots of help in places like Pelican or spelled out in books.

I wish you the best of luck in your search.