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-   -   SC non snapped head bolts roll call (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1006788-sc-non-snapped-head-bolts-roll-call.html)

manbridge 74 09-03-2018 10:17 PM

What kind of structure is that in the background? My wife grew up around Lake Geneva, is pic from around there?

If car was well garaged and kept from salt you will know it once you see the underside.

Adrock 09-03-2018 10:25 PM

You're not Australian are you? If not, check out the latest track by a band called The Hilltop Hoods. ;)

Nice car BTW!
I tend to agree with the above. Check the studs at valve checking time, then you can decide what to do if one ever does break. Some people suggest you can drive for quite some time with a missing head stud, too (depending on which one broke!).
I'm currently in the middle of a repair broken head stud / engine rebuild. Couldn't resist cracking that case open!!

Clark Griswold 09-03-2018 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manbridge 74 (Post 10166782)
What kind of structure is that in the background? My wife grew up around Lake Geneva, is pic from around there?

If car was well garaged and kept from salt you will know it once you see the underside.

I don't remember what that structure is. I think it is of some historic significance. Photo was taken in TN in land between the lakes.

The car appears to be garage kept and from salt. Not sure that even makes any difference on the head bolt front.

Running the car with a snapped bolt seems crazy.

would compression tests be able to tell you if you had a snapped bolt?

Adrock 09-03-2018 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Griswold (Post 10166787)

would compression tests be able to tell you if you had a snapped bolt?

I just did a leak down with 1 broken head stud... no discernible difference in readings for that cylinder.

Clark Griswold 09-04-2018 10:25 AM

I am no pro mechanic but just seems crazy a compression or leak down test wouldn't show any change. Maybe you can drive the car with a snapped bolt.

Reiver 09-04-2018 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Griswold (Post 10167328)
I am no pro mechanic but just seems crazy a compression or leak down test wouldn't show any change. Maybe you can drive the car with a snapped bolt.

Some do this if they watch everything closely but they know a rebuild is in their future. I'd not want to take the chance of ruining a jug or piston by the leaking hot gas and often created lean condition in that cylinder.
Then you are stressing the other 3 studs in a different manner.....but, folks have done this I guess without serious damage. There are so many variables in doing this that it is hard to make a generalization though.


OTOH, easy to check, pull the covers....if something is amiss you can easily tell...it will generally be your exhaust dilivar studs and that makes it an easier check.


If all is well, like Alfred E Neuman says 'Me Worry'? Just drive it.

Trackrash 09-04-2018 11:39 AM

Well, the thing is with a car this old, ***** will happen.

On a positive note, these cars are generally very durable and reliable, especially if properly maintained.

I would recommend keeping the car in top mechanical condition, but be ready for anything that may crop up. Kind of like owning a house. Sooner or later things need repairs and replacement.

Also on a positive note, all of the known issues are well documented. Parts are readily available as is information on repairs.

As far as broken head studs goes, yea, it is an epidemic.

The good news is if you are good with a wrench you could do the repair yourself for just the cost of the new studs, assuming no other work needs to be done to the motor. There is that "while you are in there $$$$" thing to keep in mind,though.

Geronimo 09-04-2018 02:05 PM

From the research I have been doing (as new SC owner) my plan is to build a large (to me) engine fund of at least 15K. These engines are old and will need rebuilding, they are ridiculously expensive to repair let alone add upgrades "while your in there".

I am learning quickly that without very deep pockets or just deep pockets and skills Porsche ownership might be more pain than joy. :)

toddetch 09-04-2018 03:02 PM

Mine has ~70k miles. Sat for a number of years. I drove it about 6000 miles in the first year of ownership - no garage queen. Took it in for a valve adjustment and they found a broken head stud. It is now getting a top end rebuild with stainless steel studs. I hopefully get it back next week. Doing a lot of stuff "while they're in there" - including replacing the tensioner chain, new airbox (it had blown 30 years ago and the epoxy to repair and install a popoff valve was messy and starting to flake), new stainless steel exhaust, etc. It's costing a ton, but my thinking is that I'm just doing in one big chunk while the engine is out what I kind of expected to do over a number of years. I'll be driving the crap out of it soon...

toddetch 09-04-2018 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geronimo (Post 10167637)
From the research I have been doing (as new SC owner) my plan is to build a large (to me) engine fund of at least 15K. These engines are old and will need rebuilding, they are ridiculously expensive to repair let alone add upgrades "while your in there".

I am learning quickly that without very deep pockets or just deep pockets and skills Porsche ownership might be more pain than joy. :)

And I'm also with Geronimo. I had started to put money away in its own little fund every month as a budget to work on the car. It is nowhere near big enough to cover the current work, but now I'm choosing to look at it as I'm getting a really nicely refreshed engine, so now I can save up for other unforeseens as well as eventually adding the Classic Retrofit Electrocooler and fresh paint.

Reiver 09-04-2018 04:49 PM

Clark....from the engine rebuilding section.... more head stud info that one can consume...

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/search.php?searchid=18020081

try this and look for Chris 7's comments...always enlightening....

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/872358-steel-head-studs-bad-2.html

QueWhy 09-04-2018 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Griswold (Post 10166743)
yes! some positive comments!!!!

I mean even my title is attracting people that have had head stud issues.

It's always tough on the forums. These are the places where people diagnose and fix the issues so it is logical that the issues get the focus. Nobody, well I shouldn't say nobody. but most people don't come on car forums and say hey just wanted to check in, zero issues, cheers!

You are spot on. I think any internet search or forum is going to give skewed results(Google gluten and you'd think it's worse than rat poison), of all the 3.0 SCs sold only a fraction are represented on these forums.

Pop the valve covers off and hope nothing hits the floor. I can say it was a hold your breath and hope experience the first time for me. Don't spend your time worrying about what could happen. Drive the car and enjoy, address problems as they surface. "She's a beaut Clark!" (I'm jealous of your pasha interior)

Clark Griswold 09-04-2018 09:12 PM

Maybe I will refinish my wheels and do a suspension overhaul before looking.

While the valve adjustment on this car was done in 2013 (and presumably head bolts were fine) it's my understanding that head bolts are susceptible to time as well as miles, while a valve adjustment is not right? ie I am not due for a valve adjustment considering how little the car has been driven since the last one.

Reiver 09-04-2018 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Griswold (Post 10168149)
Maybe I will refinish my wheels and do a suspension overhaul before looking.

While the valve adjustment on this car was done in 2013 (and presumably head bolts were fine) it's my understanding that head bolts are susceptible to time as well as miles, while a valve adjustment is not right? ie I am not due for a valve adjustment considering how little the car has been driven since the last one.

10-15k between valve adjustments...time is not an issue.

pmax 09-05-2018 02:08 PM

Here's one way to look at this ...

How many miles do these engine go before requiring any top end work not just for head studs ?
In that light, the studs may not appear as that much of an issue compared to valve jobs or worn cylinders for example, the latter of which no one seem to consider indicative of an inevitable problem.

'76 911S 3.0 09-05-2018 03:18 PM

My SC engine at 250k only had 1 broken stud. Luck of the draw it seems.

pkabush 09-05-2018 04:59 PM

I say drive the snot out of it. You’re going to have plenty of opportunities to spend money on the motor as time goes on.
I recently went through a top end rebuild on my 81 930 which had Divilar exhaust studs.
None were broken. I seriously considered keeping them but I caved to conventional wisdom and went with steel. That said I know of two other local 930 owners decided to keep there Dilivar studs on the advice of a very well respected Porsche mechanic during there rebuild. BTW neither of the above mentioned 930s are stock motors. Anyway, nice looking 911. Welcome, and, enjoy!

Coastr 09-05-2018 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Griswold (Post 10167328)
I am no pro mechanic but just seems crazy a compression or leak down test wouldn't show any change. Maybe you can drive the car with a snapped bolt.

Most stud breaks are found at valve adjust time. It’s not a case of ‘maybe’ you can drive the car - right now there are people happily driving around not even aware that they have a broken stud. Exhaust leaks tend to come when two have broken on the one cylinder. Most engines get rebuilt without issue.

I would suggest take the valve covers off at next oil change if it’s keeping you up at night.
I did to satisfy myself - a relieving moment when all were accounted for.

fred cook 09-06-2018 05:05 AM

One of the truths of life, dilivar breaks! If not now, then later! Of course, the lower studs in your engine may have already been replaced. Check with a magnet. If it sticks, they are steel if not, then they are dilivar which is non magnetic. Use a small magnet so it isn't attracted to the nut.

Pazuzu 09-06-2018 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coastr (Post 10169455)
Most stud breaks are found at valve adjust time. It’s not a case of ‘maybe’ you can drive the car - right now there are people happily driving around not even aware that they have a broken stud. Exhaust leaks tend to come when two have broken on the one cylinder. Most engines get rebuilt without issue.

I would suggest take the valve covers off at next oil change if it’s keeping you up at night.
I did to satisfy myself - a relieving moment when all were accounted for.

That's where my car stood when I had to rebuild mine. I had 4 snapped studs on 4 cylinders, it was when #5 snapped and doubled up a cylinder that I had to do something.
Completed the full rebuild myself (split the case), took about 6 weeks tip to tail and far less than $15k...much closer to $5k.


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