For anyone that's interested I just ordered all of the parts for the Megasquirter. I will build it and see how she works.

One thing that is bath good and bad is that it doesn't incorporate any ignition control into the ECM. I think it is good because it will simplify the install and also my current CDI ignition is doing its job well (permatune). The only downside is that I don't have computer controlled advance.

I am kind of working on parallel systems, the megasquirt and a GM based ECM. The GM ecm I am going to use is a 1227730 which is commonly found in 90 and up Camaros. This is a TPI MAP system that will require several EPROM mods and lots of tuning. Some mods include deactivation of the VATS and VSS. It is a batch fired ECM which uses a 4 wire ignition module that I am fairly certain will be compatible with the signal form the stock dizzy.

If anyone is interested I have the full pinout diagram for this ECM, and a few of the other part numbers that will be associated with the setup.

Both systems of course still require the design of an intake manifold. At the moment I am going to go the cheapest route which is to modify the CIS runners and get ahold of an old blown airbox to cut up. I am planning to drill out the existing injector holes and have a set of premade injector bosses welded in place. This should cut down on some of the fab time involved.

I am hoping to be under $200 for each setup. This is assuming I can make both setups use the same set of sensors. I will have a slightly higher cost with the GM setup because of the need for a EPROM programmer/eraser.

Ben in SC

I have the same question concerning the squirt system. Went to the site and saw no item numbers or prices or ordering info. Very interested in this type of simple setup. I would rather run a stand alone fuel system on a turbocharged or supercharged arrangement.

James/Rarly,

I am in on the kit group buy, $100 delivered. I also have my local industrial electronics dealer ordering the part for me as well. I will then make the double sided PCM myself, hopefully in a month they will have the host software updated so that I can updload/update the ECM Flash without any special hardware/software.

I will let you guys know what I find out on the individual parts cost.

Ben in SC

Sounds good, I'd like to find out a lot more about this system.
Thanks for the info.

Any news on this front? Has anyone tried out the Megasquirt system or the ignition system they are developing?

They seem to have a lot of people not paying after the group buy setups, but they never respond to my inquiries about taking someone's place.

Any progress on the GM EFI front?

Curious,

Anyone?

I think it is going to take a long time before we see the megasquirt hardware. They are way behind schedule.

There is a GM EFI update and website posted, check it out.

Well it has been a while, but my MegaSquirt hardware did finally show up. I have built the unit and fully tested it. I am now just waiting on delivery of my other FI bits like the intake, injectors, TPS etc......

I have attached some pictures of my completed MS unit fo your viewing pleasure :D......

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate.../DSC00022x.JPG

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate.../DSC00023x.JPG

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate.../DSC00025x.JPG

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate.../DSC00026x.JPG

And the Stimulator board....

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate.../DSC00021x.JPG

Hopefully it wont be to long now... I have generated the necessary VE tables for the 3.0 SC engine and done preliminary configurations on the MS, I "should" be able to at least get the engine to run when it is first installed. From that point it is fine tuning with the O2 meter...

Maybe we can bring this thread back to life a bit now......

That looks great. Out of my soldering league...

They told me there may be another group buy this summer, as the last one is completely closed, apparently.

Keep us posted.

Olivier

I haven't received my megasquirt ECU yet. I think I'm at the end of mailing list.

I am not ready for it anyway. I am still working on the air box and fuel rails. Here is a pic of one custom made fuel rail. The square is 3/4" aluminium square. I machined three fuel injector fittings to match my ford mustang fuel injectors (Bosch). All the pieces are aluminium and have been brazed together.

Looking very good Tony!!!! I am impressed with your fabrication ability.

A note to everyone concerning the MegaSquirt and CDI ignition...

I have not been able to as of yet to find a suitible source for the ignition input to the MS. What it is expecting to see is an "active high" signal. That is, a signal that is normally at zero volts and pulses high during an ignition event. The signal produced by the TACH lead is at 14 volts normally and drops to 7 volts during an ignition event. It never goes low enough to turn off the opto isolator in the MS, something that probably occurs around 3 or 4 volts. Thus the MegaSquirt never sees the ignition signal.

Without this signal the unit doesnt know when to fire the injectors or obviously calculate the engines RPM.

I had hoped to not have to go with a MSD ignition but it is looking like I may have to. If anyone sees any errors in my above statements please POINT THEM OUT....

I will contiue to hack away to keep my EFI project on track.

Ben,

I haven't had time to look into how the MS unit will be hooked up yet. However if the signal at the tach is like you describe 14v->7v->14v etc.. then one could do the following.

On the stock MS unit one side of the LED in the opto isolator is connected to ground and the other goes to "coil" via a 330 Ohm resistor. The side marked "coil" could be connected to the battery (14v) and the other end (now connected to ground) would go to the tach. Now when the tach goes to 14v no current would flow in the LED since both side are at the same voltage. When the tach goes to 7v current would flow from the battery to the tach.

A couple of points of caution. I don't know what the tach input circuit looks like and with the above modification we are asking it to sink some current. Also one needs to check the datasheet of the opto coupler to see how much current is needed for it to turn "on". The 330 Ohm resistor may need to change.

The above is just of the top of my head. There maybe an easier/safer way of doing it.

UPDATE....

I was able to get the MS to work with my Permatune CDI ignition. What I had to do is change the 330ohm restistor out for a 4.7k and add in a 9.1v Zener Diode on the cathode of the Opto Isolator. The 4.7k resistor is needed to get back down to 10ma....

The signal coming out of the TACH lead is 50v which sinks to ground. I was able to talk with the chief engineer at Permatune to get the details on the box.

http://www.andersoncountysc.org/CDI_wave.jpg

I also finaly got my Carerra Intake manifold last week, I need to unbold the CIS stuff and bolt in the new intake, find a TPS that will bolt up to the TB and is resistive.

Back to work for me.............

James,
I got an internal server error when I tried to post on the sign-up page. I sent Al an email. Hope that will work.
Thanks for the update.

Mifintifin

82 SC Coupe
83 SC Cab

Ben (or anybody),

I just got my MS kit too - can't wait to experiment.

Questions;
1. How did/what did you use to generate the first cut VE tables?

2. Air temp sensor I understand - where are you going to put the coolant sensor?

3. Are you firing injectors batch or ping-pong?

4. What TPS sensor are you using and where?

I'm planning to go the route of gutting a pair of Zeniths to use at t-bodies (add TPS). I'm going to put injector bosses in a stock/Motormeister manifolds (CIS injector targeting). Atop my Zeniths will be intercooler(s) being force fed by 2 small(ish) turbos.

I plan to document when I get to it.

SmileWavy

Matt,


I used the torque curve table from the bently to extrapolate? the VE table... LOL that sounds cool!!

But really, I can email you the VE table that I am using if you or anyone else MSing wants it.... Better repley here as my email is DOWN, I hate working late to fix stuff!! Especially MicroSoft Stuff!

I've just updated my web page with pictures of my fuel rail and how I added a TPS sensor the existing Porsche throttle body.

http://www.geocities.com/tbitz/cis_to_efi.html

Here is a pic of the Porsche throttle body with the TPS sensor mounted:

Ben - you can e-mail me at mjdunl@roushind.com - THANKS!

tbiz - you're updates are too cool! Great job. The lathe does look like it comes in very handy. The Mustang TPS does seem like one of the simpler one's to use. You can get a lot of adjustment range out of those by simply elongating the slot. Or, in the aftermarket, there are some adjustment plates that can be added under the TPS to increase it's range.

Can't wait to get to my version - need to rebuild the engine first though.



SmileWavy

In addition to the Megasquirt system that seems so popular, I stumbled on another system that looks like it might be more complete.

http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html

Regards,

Joe

And alot more expensive..............

I came accross this on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1816322874

airbox, six runners, throttle body, no reserve currently at $36!!

I came accross one more:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1815616631
Currently at $100

Good News!!!
 

I have some good news, I hooked up my harness to the car tonight and was able to run it on the MegaSquirt for the first time.

It idled surprisingly well without any real VE adjustments. It was a bit rough at first since I don't have an IAV hooked up. I let it run up to a good operating temp, the O2 was reading a bit lean so I need to do some more tuning. I revved up to some different rpms to see how it ran, no load of course. Tomorrow night I will mount the MS and secure my harness and hopefully hit the road in a day or two...

Congrats Ben! Must have been a wonderful sight and feeling to see and hear it working. Definetly keep us posted.

I know you've been busy, but when you have a chance could you send me your VE table at mjdunl@roushind.com. What/where are you doing for the coolant sensor hookup? Batch or ping-pong injector firing?

No progress on my Porsche project at the moment. My race Bug toasted a rod bearing and chewed up the timing gears at a test/tune event this past weekend. I'm thrashing to get it rebuilt for the first race of the season in two weeks.

SmileWavy

Matt the VE table I used is on the way......

As for the coolant sensors I am using a GM open thermistor for the air temp and for the time being the stock oil temp sender for coolant temp. I am planning to get another GM sensor and use the internal thermistor glued to an oil line some how, TBITZ and I are working on the details of this now. These sensors are the ones that the MS is designed to use so it makes it simpler than trying to use a Bosch one and reprogram the MS.

I am using 2 squirts in Alternating mode. I have my ReqFuel set at 20 for now, these numbers seemed to work well with the initial testing I did last night. I hope to get everything mounted tonight and get a little more running time, I will report the results..........


-Ben

Good job Ben!

What type of injectors are you using? I have picked up some 19lbs/hr injectors from a 5.0L Ford Mustang.

Some updates
 

Tony,

I am using stock 3.2 injectors, they are 19lb/hr as well.....

I finally got to take a few pictures of my progress and thought I would post some of them and a project status for those who are watching the thread...



A shot of the main relay that powers the injectors and the ECU.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...ads/benMS2.JPG

The ECU mounted on the firewall behind the throttle body, note the shop rag plugging the IAV line :)

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...oads/enMS9.JPG

Wide shot with the 3.2 intake and the messy wiring for the EFI, still need to do smoe clean up here.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...ads/benMS4.JPG

Another intake shot, the round copper thing on the right intake housing is the Airtemp sensor that I am using. It will get mounted in the air intake pip when I get one....

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...ads/benMS9.JPG

Shot of the fuel rails and injector wiring, nothing fancy here.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...ads/benMS3.JPG



This is where I am with the project now. I am able to run the engine and monitor/yune it from inside the cabin, Im still in the prelim tuning stages so I havent had it on the road just yet.

I still need to clean up the harness a bit, find a TPS with a "D" shaft input, find a Idle Air Valve that will work with the ECU, build an intake tube and stick on an air filter.

Once I get these things done I will be able to hit the road for tuning under load and hopefully be able to smooth everything out. All in all the MegaSquirt is a great little ECU, it looks like it will take some time to get everything "dialed in" so that it can become a daily driver again but Im confident that it wont take to long.

For those interested to date I have spent a total of $720

$100 - Megasquirt ECU
$500 - Carrerra Intake, TB, injectors, fuel rails
$50 - wire and connectors
$30 - 2 Temp sensors
$20 - O2 sensor
$20 - Odds & ends

Obviously if you use your existing CIS intake and make modifications like Tony (TBITZ) you will come out much cheaper. One of the reasons I went with the new intake was so that I could reatain the stock CIS in working order so in theevent that I wanted to revert back to stock induction it would be unmolested.

If anyoe has any question let me know, this has been a great project!!!!

.

Great pictures Ben. This is really an interesting project.

I was surprised to see that you mounted the ECU inside the engine compartment. Are you concerned about overheating the electronics? Can the megasquirt be mounted inside the cabin, under the passenger seat?

I ran the idea of mounting it inside the compartment by the guys who designed it and they seemed to think it would be ok, I did make the wiring harness so that in the event I have overheating problems I could just extend it into the cabin.

The only real concern I have at the moment is that the ECU case isnt exactly weather tight. I am looking for ways now to seal it up but still aloow myself access in case I have to make a repair.

One other note about mounting in the cabin: If I did mount it inside I would have had to go with an external MAP sensor. I decided to stick with the one provided (internal) for now.

My main goal was to get the unit up and running and do some real world testing, right now I only know of @15 cars that even have the MS on a running vehicle. As time goes by I will determine if it will be better suited inside the cabin, its just a matter of extending the harness and going to an external MAP sensor right now.

Thanks,

Ben,

In the event we'd have to put the MS in the car (due to overheating), the MAP sensor can still stay in the MS unit. A semi-rigid vacuum tube can be run from the engine bay to the MS unit.

I think this would be alright. Changes in manifold pressure travel at the speed of sound inthe tube, so even if the sensor is 10ft away the pressure changes would only take 10 milli seconds to get to the sensor. This is how much time it takes the engine to do one revolution at 6000 RPM. As long as the tube doesn't get crimped anywhere I think it should be OK.

Ben,

When I ran my GM TPI on my 3.0 I placed the electrinic control module in the engine compartment against the firewall where you have yours mounted and ran it that way for years, it wasn't weathertight either.

My concerns about engine heat, moisture or EMI did not seem to have any adverse effects on its performance.

Joe

Ben,

How are you getting the serial cable into the cabin?

I think there is another hole beside the hole for the shift coupler shaft. I'll have to get under the car and see.

Just some new pictures
 

I got my intake and air filter all hooked up and was able to take her out on a maiden MS voyage :)

Did a little more tuning under load, she ran pretty good but the absense of a TPS and IAV were noticable. Look forward to hearing from everyone else who is doing a MS project?? Come on dont be shy, lol.....

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...ads/int2sm.jpg

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...ads/int3sm.jpg

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...ads/int4sm.jpg

Re: Some updates
 

I was told that the stock 3.2 injectors were in the 25-27 lb/hr range. Cool project.
-Chris

Thanks for reminding me Ben, I need an air filter solution.
Is the surface area of that air filter the same as that of a CIS air filter? It looks alittle small. We wouldn't want to choke the engine.

As for the injectors, here is the data I have:
Assuming a BSFC of 0.55 lbs/hp/hp you get the following power based on 100% duty cycle of the injectors. I believe this assumes a fairly rich mixture.

19lbs/hr = 207Hp
25lbs/hr = 272Hp

Some of the "experts" say you shouldn't run them at 100%, but rather 85%. If you use the 85% duty cycle you end up with:

19lbs/hr = 176Hp
25lbs/hr = 231Hp

Ben how much duty cycle are your injectors runing at 6000rpm?

I thought the recommended max duty cycle was 80%.

I finally hackup my perfectly good airbox last night. I used a dremel with a milling bit. It went fairly smooth. I picked up an oval air filter and made two custom end plates for it. I have to find a 90 degree boot to connect the throttle body to the airfilter (anyone got one with a 3" ID?).

The airfilter will be where the old CIS boot is. I won't cover the airfilter since I don't think it can get wet in that location.

Whoops! Picture didn't load up. Try again...

...from the SCWDP Office of R&D...
 

Okay, I have a carrera intake manifold in hand which I got from eBay for $332. I am hoping to follow in Ben's footsteps and convert my CIS system to EFI using MegaSquirt. Now that Ben has bravely proven the concept with empirical evidence, my goal is nothing less than to develop and fully document this mod and present it as a cost effective alternative to (gas-guzzling & air polluting) carbs. I am even willing to blow some $$ on dyno time to document the benefits and thereby do my little part to save the enviroment. So to this end, my next task is to find a set of fuel injectors that will fit in my new intake manifold. Ben used stock 3.2 liter injectors and that seems like the natural choice. However, they can be pricey. And Joe and tbitz have demonstrated that there are other options. Sooooo, what say the Pelicanheads? Should I stick with the standard carrera injectors or use something else? Obviously, I think all of these options can come from Bosch. So we can still stay with "OEM" parts. I know zilch about injectors so I have no clue what will "fit" into my intake manifold and what would be the best performance/cost solution.

Ideas?

Janus,

By the looks of the carrera injectors I would say that there are likely many other cars out there with injectors of similar design.

This is, of course a guess right now. But I bet someone out there (maybe TBITZ) can shed some light on the design of other injectors. The inlet side of the injector should be fairly standard, ie where it connects to the fuel rail. The business end where it enters the intake manifold is the only place I see a possible issue.

It sure would be nice to be able to source a cheaper injecter for my set up. I have plans to go to a larger set if/when I do my turbo upgrade......