"""Joe " Are you prepared to convert your CD ignition to a
transistorized HEI system? If you can do that you
might just might have a chance moving on to the next
step in the conversion process. """"


Not sure what you are talking about here, what does it intel converting the CDI box to HEI. I had hoped to keep the old CIS in a box for "just in case" times.

I guess that your saying the stock CDI wont work with the EFI???? Please elaborate.

Ben in SC

That's right. CDI and EFI do not mix or you might have seen it on DME. Believe it or not, DME uses HEI, they just don't call it that...only GM can.

Converting to HEI is small potatoes considering what you will be embarking on and that's just getting into the starting gate.

Joe

[This message has been edited by stlrj (edited 11-08-2001).]

Two Ford 1985 V-6 engines for $100 on eBay. Economists all around the world will scratch their heads wondering why old Fords are suddenly selling like hotcakes!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=597595891&r=0&t=0

------------------
Janus Cole
1980 911SC & 1987 944

Can I get a bump? Anyone found any more info?????

Ben in SC

Well, I'm with you, the curiosity is driving me nuts. I think we may be stuck unless we can somehow bribe stlrj Joe into providing some detailed specs and maybe even author a tech article on the 85 Ford/Porsche 911 EFI conversion. I am willing to offer my *sister* at this point (though I haven't yet cleared it with her or her husband). On a separate (and admittedly less interesting front), I ordered the Bosch Fuel Injection book to research options. The KE-Jetronic system is nice and seems to an easy install. But it has been correctly pointed out on this thread that it still retains the "flapper" air meter. But the later LH-Jetronic system had a MAF. Can they be convinced to play nice together? I'll let you know after I read the book and can speak from intelligence instead of my current location (i.e. my arse).

Janus I came across a book about adapting EFI to cars that were not previously equiped. It apperantly has apart listing for you to use on your trip to the local pick-a-part.........

Here is a link to one of them listed on ebay....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=597752011&r=0&t=0

Ben in SC
"Still on the EFI conversion trail"

Same book at Amazon.com, same price. No bidding.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/18...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Tom

Guys,
A better book for you would be "Fuel Injection: Installation, Performance Tuning, Modifications" by Jeff Hartman. The theory alone is worth the price.

Stlrj,
I've read all the posts and there was no mension of how well the adapted EFI system performed in the 911 application. Did the injectors deliver the fuel required for the new higher performance engine? I can't remember off hand what the HP figures were for the '85 GM engines, but I'm sure it's not as much as the three liter SC.

I also was concerned about the differnces in performance and if the EFI would be flexible enough to compensate but was surprised to find that it not only adapted to its new environment, it improved throttle response, low end torque, top end power and returned better than 30mpg on the road.

When I sold that engine five years ago, I saved the EFI and sold it with the CIS with the idea that I would someday put it on my 3.2 which did not match the performance of the 3.0 EFI. But as it turns out, I eventually was able to tune my DME to match it so I no longer had a need for it and got rid of most of the parts.

In retrospect, I should have saved all the parts or at least taken some pictures. No way I could have imagined that anyone would be interested in such an unusual setup.

Joe

Sorry all, but I can't let this excellent post languish on page 3.

Joe, Can you give some details on the setup? Was it simply a matter of bolting it on, or was there more to it as far as mixture mapping?

How long did it take you to get it tuned to where you were satisfied with the setup?

Tom

Tom,

There was nothing bolt on about it at all. Just about everything had to be fabricated, modified and finagled to make it work with a whole lot of trial and error until it performed to my satifaction.

Mounting EFI injectors on CIS manifolds and then targeting them to the optimum angle took me weeks to figure out and even then I continued to chase after vacuum leaks that robbed performance.

Still other challenges were in the installation of a throttle position sensor, an idle air control valve, MAF sensor, where to get a signal for the vehicle speed sensor VSS, how to trick the ECM to see an EGR signal without it being connected, how to adjust the fuel pressure to make the ECM see a block learn number 128, understanding integrators and 02 sensor crosscounts...

I even ended up taking a class in Indian Valley College called automotive computer contols taught by Bob White from the Buick Division of GM.

Sorry to bore you with all the nerd stuff, but I can guarantee you will become a nerd in order to have the slightest chance of getting it to work.

I forgot to mention that this was my second CIS to EFI conversion, so I have a slight advantage over anyone who has never done one before. My first was converting my 74 2.7 CIS to EFI from an 80 280ZX using the same modified airbox and manifolds. But, as far as I'm concerned, the GM system is far superior in every respect.

Joe

While you're at Pik-a-Parts, look around for one of those ML320's (yeah right). This may be the answer though; 6 cylinders, V-arrangement and a neat scroll-type magnesium intake manifold not unlike Vario-Ram. Computer fires the dual plugs in an A-B, B-A, A-B, etc. staggered-timing sequence for a better burn and to increase plug life. I thought that was pretty trick.

I thought I'd contribute to the database.

Regards,
Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

GM was the first to go to this distibutorless ignition system or coilpack as you describe in 1986, but I recommend staying away from this because of that added complexity of an additional crank position sensor and cam sensor in order to trigger the coilpacks in the proper sequence.

Joe

Jim,

A quick question. I have been doing ALOT of research over the past few days on this subject. My question is did the FI system you adapted use a MAF sensor or was it a speed density system?

I would think that for our purposes a Speed Density (MAP) system would work the best. One reason being that you would not need to worry with the intake ducting, filter>MAF>throttle body.

I have almost got my parts list down for my project some of which include a EPROM burner :)

Looks like we may have found a use for all those blown airboxes people throw away? Anyone out there have a blown Airbox I can have?

Once I have a definitive listing with part numbers I will post them for anyone interested. One problem I still face since I am a little unfamiliar with it is the ignition. Joe sais that the CDI Dizzy signal is compatible but doesn't give us a whole lot of detail about any of the components that he used on his conversion.

From what I have read the later EFI systems used at least a four wire HEI dizzy to trigger the ECU to fire the ignition. I am wondering how compatible if at all the (if I'm not mistaken) 2 wire distributor will be in this application. I am not against fabbing a crank pulley wheel to house the trigger magnets for a HALL switch doing away completely with the dizzy.

I am exited about using the aldl connector to connect my laptop inside the car for real time engine info. I have found some really good info on this and reading/writing maps to the EPROM. I wonder if we can get a functioning system if there would be may other people interested in a relatively cheap alternative to the CIS?

Done wit the ramblings,

Ben in SC

Ben, just curious, what is the total amount you think you will have in the complete system?

Mark,

I havent gotten that far yet. It would all depend on the availability of the parts from your local junk yard. When I am a little further along I will post all info that I have.

Ben in SC

Ben,

You'll need a four terminal ignition module; two terminals for the dizzy signal and the other two for the coil 12V and the swithched ground.

The crank position sonsor, if you go that route, will consist of a variable reluctance transducer and not a Hall switch. But now you will be dealing with the added complexity of a knock sensor.

I hope you have manual at this point, you'll need it!

Joe

no brainer ?
 

Hello

This might help a bit:

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

Seems to fit right into what we are doing, using GM components wherever possible because they are widely availabe and cost effective.

Joe

??? ... I just received the Bosch fuel injection book from Amazon...thumbing through the pages I saw a section on performance mods and saw a brief passage saying that a company called Techtonics on the West Coast was building a turbo VW with *DUAL* CIS fuel injection systems. Is this as nutty as it sounds? I found the Techtonics website, but they didn't have an email address listed. Granted it isn't an EFI conversion but...in my ignorance I can see three throttle bodies side by side - each connected to a CIS air flow meter/fuel distributer. Each one feeds two cylinders...all mounted on a slightly modified CIS air box...most of the vacuum hoses would simply be split into three to feed the three air throttle bodies...one WUR, one Aux air regulater, one frequency valve, one cold start injector (with the late style dispersal hose to feed each cylinder), etc. The result could be better throttle response, free-flowing intake, more precise air/fuel mixing. Is this way off the mark? Does anyone know more about Techtonics or their turbo VW?<br>