ER Grease nipples inaccessible

[rollandburn]

I did a complete suspension refresh and installed ER polybronze all the way around last year, had a small but reputable shop specializing in 911’s in west Toronto tighten everything up along with the final alignment and a transmission rebuild before getting back on the road. A week later I noticed that although I positioned the grease nipples correctly during install, they were no longer in that position and I couldn’t get to half of them. I brought the car back to the shop for other more significant reasons (found one front shock rattling around in the ball because the tower nut wasn’t on at all, had fallen off and landed down by the gas tank, and ‘that noise’ from the rear turned out to be another shock nut being only finger tight... jeezus) ... so while back in for those issues to be taken care of I asked for the inaccessible nipples to be addressed too.

Today I hop under to do the lube and see they are still buried in the undercarriage and/or otherwise inaccessible. Should they stay put when set, or is it common for them to rotate out of an accessible position? Is there a trick to getting them rotated back into position?

After adding up the mentioned oversights, and a few others, I don’t feel confident taking my car back to this place regardless of their reputation. I suspect the reputation is built on the owners experience but a junior mechanic worked on my car... still, if that’s how it goes I think I’d like to find another solution. I really don’t want to have to take it all apart again. Is there a way to lube the polybronze bushings without using the grease nipples?

Thanks




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[Targa Time]

The fittings should be staying in the position you installed them. Are they rotating on you? If they are, did you modify the poly portion of the bushing to install it? As I recall they were a very tight fit on installation.
They are difficult to lubricate. I accomplish the job with a grease gun fitted with a flexable hose like fitting.

[75 911s]

If the polybronze are rotating then they need to be glued in as per the ER instructions. The shop should do a free alignment after you address this and I wouldn’t take it back otherwise.

[rollandburn]

Bummer. I assume they are rotating because I installed them in the correct orientation with glue as per chucks instruction. Although now that I think of it, how they could rotate after being glued is a mystery. Gah. Going on a 5k trip tomorrow and was hoping for some solution to avoid any potential damage from being under-lubricated. Not sure if there’s much to worry about there for the time being though.


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[Tippy]

Wish Ronnie was around these days for this topic!!

[Pehlen]

Originally Posted by Targa Time

The fittings should be staying in the position you installed them. Are they rotating on you? If they are, did you modify the poly portion of the bushing to install it? As I recall they were a very tight fit on installation.
They are difficult to lubricate. I accomplish the job with a grease gun fitted with a flexable hose like fitting.

Any more details on the flexible hose like fitting?

I've been looking for something to help with this issue - only on fitting is difficult for me access (my installation error) and I've not found a good solution yet.

[75 911s]

Most grease guns that I see have that flex fitting on it. I think I bought mine at Harbor freight. If the fittings rotate down they bottom out on the cover bolts. This could damage the fittings or possibly even tear them out. I don't remember the glue they recommended, but I would stick to that particular one. I think it's worth taking it apart again to make sure it is right. What spring plates are you using? Is everything bueno on the spring plate? If you are using ER QC they need 1mm lateral play and to drop freely after the cover is installed.

[rollandburn]

Originally Posted by Targa Time

The fittings should be staying in the position you installed them. Are they rotating on you? If they are, did you modify the poly portion of the bushing to install it? As I recall they were a very tight fit on installation.
They are difficult to lubricate. I accomplish the job with a grease gun fitted with a flexable hose like fitting.

Actually, where the bushings are glued has no impact on the position of the grease nipple, it's a different part of the bushing. The silver ring in the following photo is what gets glued... the nipples are part of the poly (red) component which just sits in the spring plate/body. Mine weren't difficult to install at all... for example the spring plate cover I bought new so the new bushings slipped right in with soapy water. Same with the front (front may have been a little more challenging requiring a tap from rubber mallet if memory serves). Maybe the relative ease with which they went in is a clue to why they are rotating. They are circles after all... and there is nothing really holding the bushing/grease nipple in it's original orientation other than friction and the weight of the car.



The more I think about it, and the unimpressive job the shop did elsewhere on the car... I'm wondering if they just cranked down the suspension bolts without considering there needed to be a certain amount of play. Even though I was sure they knew what they were doing I printed the instructions and left them with the car juuuuust in case. Chuck's instructions, for example, say, "Check that spring plate moves freely without binding. The spring plate should have 1.5mm ± .75mm of lateral play. DO NOT ELIMINATE THIS PLAY. Add or remove spacers as needed to achieve target lateral play." I certainly did that... maybe the shop reefed on the bolts without realizing, thereby eliminating the play, causing undue pressure that grabbed on to the bushing and slowly rotated it over time. I think I'm going to ask chuck about this... see what he says.

Cheers

[75 911s]

Originally Posted by rollandburn

Actually, where the bushings are glued has no impact on the position of the grease nipple, it's a different part of the bushing. The silver ring in the following photo is what gets glued... the nipples are part of the poly (red) component which just sits in the spring plate/body.

I may have used the wrong wording, yes, you epoxy the races to the spring plate, but Chuck also recommends using a urethane based adhesive caulking for the polybronze bushings themselves within the torsion tube and the cover.

Check out the instructions. I put both sides together, and one was a little easy going in. I had the same problem, the nipples slipped down to the bolts. I took it apart and put calking in on the one side, problem solved.

[rollandburn]

Originally Posted by 75 911s

I may have used the wrong wording, yes, you epoxy the races to the spring plate, but Chuck also recommends using a urethane based adhesive caulking for the polybronze bushings themselves within the torsion tube and the cover.

Check out the instructions. I put both sides together, and one was a little easy going in. I had the same problem, the nipples slipped down to the bolts. I took it apart and put calking in on the one side, problem solved.

Yep... you got it. That’s the solution. Unfortunately mine weren’t what I’d have called “loose” but, being a subjective term, I should have done this from the start. Ho hum... I guess this means I do have to take it all apart. And I suppose that means re-alignment costs are on me. Wahhhhh... thanks everybody! =]

[Kraftwerk]

rollandburn, Just to follow up : How did this go?
Is it possible to jack up the rear, taking some weight off then simply rotating the grease ring back into proper position?

[rollandburn]

I'm guessing you couldn't rotate them without taking things apart (without bashing on the nipple anyway). That's actually the main reason I didn't bother with the adhesive caulk during installation; they didn't seem 'loose', where you could turn them by hand after being initially seated (i definitely don't recall thinking "now how is that nipple going to stay aligned with the bushing so loose like that?"). So, it has to come apart for the caulking anyway if that amount of friction wasn't enough to hold them from rotating during natural suspension movement. Plus, about half of all nipples are out of place not just the back unfortunately.

[Plavan]

People still use these?