CIS Cold Start Problem Did Pressure Tests Now What?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by pmax

I do want to add though that the resistance of the WUR does not affect the initial startup, it comes into play only after the engine springs to life.

+1 The car could start with injector fuel lines removed with a functioning cold start system. (Then stall shortly after starter disengaged)

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by pmax

Disengage, release, pry out ... the metal clip on the sides then pull.


Here ....

OK. This what I have been doing. I was hoping it would have been like Tim's experience.

Thanks.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

OK. This what I have been doing. I was hoping it would have been like Tim's experience.

Thanks.

His probably has a broken connector, like the one in mine !

[WyattEarp]

Originally Posted by pmax

His probably has a broken connector, like the one in mine !

Mine seems to not be broken and trying to keep it that way. Always very afraid of pulling too hard on 30+ year old plastic that has been heat cycled over 105k miles.

[gazzerr]

I was always prying out the spring clips and I ended up chewing up and breaking a couple of the plugs. They actually just pull straight off without removing then spring clip. If you use a little thin screwdriver and just very lightly insert the blade and twist under the plug it just pops right off. If I had of known this when I was disassembling my CIS it would have probably saved me a couple of hours sheesh.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by WyattEarp

Mine seems to not be broken and trying to keep it that way. Always very afraid of pulling too hard on 30+ year old plastic that has been heat cycled over 105k miles.

Remove clip with one of those bent tool dental tool, scriber things.

Easy to lose. Too much tension and it will fly and disappear.

15 years ago you could go the the bone yard and snag all the clips and connectors you needed off of 1980's VW's.

They are thinning out.

[HarryD]

WyattEarp:

All very interesting discussion, but back to you. Your original post said it was hard to start but once running, seemed ok. That, to me, clearly indicates a problem with the cold start system (Thermotime switch or CSV).

Have you been able to verify all is connected properly?

Have you been able to verify all is working?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by HarryD

WyattEarp:

All very interesting discussion, but back to you.

Originally Posted by WyattEarp

I did not test the resistance cold because apparently I am not smart enough to get the electrical connector off and didnt want to break it.

Where is it that this thread deviated into off topic?

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Where is it that this thread deviated into off topic?

Hi Bob:

I guess it was the tangential discussion on how to remove a clip. Interesting, somewhat on topic, but the "not the main event".

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Hi Bob:

I guess it was the tangential discussion on how to remove a clip. Interesting, somewhat on topic, but the "not the main event".

+1

By no means the main event but pertinent, however small.

Functioning CSV will start the car every time. OP ain't got that going on.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

+1

By no means the main event but pertinent, however small.

Functioning CSV will start the car every time. OP ain't got that going on.

My thoughts exactly.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by pmax

Disengage, release, pry out ... the metal clip on the sides then pull.


Here ... it's Saturday morning, why not

Pmax,

You don’t need to pry and remove the spring to unlock or remove the WUR plug. How often do you work with this push/pull type square electrical plug lately? The WUR’s used in CIS have this type of plug on them. The spring is used to secure and lock plug in place. The plug will not come off easily without applying sufficient side to side pulling motion (wiggle) to unlock this spring.

Look very closely on the locking tabs on the sides of the plug. For installation, outer angle of the tabs is approximately 45° and the inner tabs have greater than 45° slope. So you would need a much greater effort to remove or pull out the plug compared to installation.

If is mandatory to use a pick for removal, how on earth would you be able to remove the AFS switch plug, CSV plug, or FV plug with the engine in situ? I will give you several hours to remove this spring with engine in situ. The key to removing this type of plug is to exert a side to side pull (wiggling) to get the locking spring slide over the the locking tabs. Go over the garage and practice removing it. I’ve been working with Bosch WUR’s for many years now and I could not recall exactly how many times I’ve done this maybe several hundreds or thousand times (?).

People been doing a lot of reading and that is good. But they lack hands on experience. This a very good example how people think and understand how CIS works. And this is just the “spring”. Wait till it comes to actually doing the CSV and fuel injectors tests and evaluation.

Tony

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

+1

By no means the main event but pertinent, however small.

Functioning CSV will start the car every time. OP ain't got that going on.

Bob,

If you have not checked or tested the CSV, how would you know it is good or bad? You can not evaluate the CSV nor the fuel injectors without dismounting them from the engine.

What the OP needs now is to know and understand how to remove and test the CSV and injectors to evaluate them. I intentionally avoided earlier getting involve in this post to allow others to participate and offer his/her advices. The more people participate in a given thread the better.

A good working CSV does not guarantee you that you could start and run the car. A CSV is a very robust and dependable CIS component and it hardly fails at all. But the key is how to test and evaluate CSV if you are able to dismount it from the engine. The removal is easy but cumbersome or tedious with the car installed.

BTW, have you completed the restoration of your SC after the accident? Happy Holidays my friend.

Tony

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

If is mandatory to use a pick for removal, how on earth would you be able to remove the AFS switch plug, CSV plug, or FV plug with the engine in situ?

I have used the pick method for 22 years.

However, I assumed that was the way to do it. It worked, but a pain in the ass. I was wrong.

OK, it can be literally pulled off. Which is awesome.

What does that have to do with not being able to understand other CIS testing methodology?

One of the easiest things I did on my top end rebuild in the 90's was cam timing from a genuine work perspective.

It was easy. Girl work. Set up indicator. Overlap TDC. Shift the pins as needed Snoozer stuff.

The subject is a simple mechanical discussion about how to remove a connector. NOT a dissertation on mental capability wrt CIS.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

BTW, have you completed the restoration of your SC after the accident? Happy Holidays my friend.

Tony

I just started moving on it. I am serious.

I have one car pal left as two died in the last year. The remaining is a sheet metal wizard. Thankfully. How selfish is that?

I bought all the exterior parts from a car in Canada. Hood, fenders, bumpers, etc. $2,500 which was probably a bargain.

The front tub is the rub. Tree hit drivers headlight spot on and supports moved things around.

I can expound upon this but not the place. Suspect $2,500 in straightening then the $2,500 of parts can be hung.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

But the key is how to test and evaluate CSV if you are able to dismount it from the engine. The removal is easy but cumbersome or tedious with the car installed.

I did this engine in situ. It was awful but doable, as long as a large caliber hand gun was not close by.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

A good working CSV does not guarantee you that you could start and run the car.

A good working CSV will start the car. Full stop.

No running was referenced.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Pmax,

You don’t need to pry and remove the spring to unlock or remove the WUR plug. How often do you work with this push/pull type square electrical plug lately? The WUR’s used in CIS have this type of plug on them. The spring is used to secure and lock plug in place. The plug will not come off easily without applying sufficient side to side pulling motion (wiggle) to unlock this spring.

Look very closely on the locking tabs on the sides of the plug. For installation, outer angle of the tabs is approximately 45° and the inner tabs have greater than 45° slope. So you would need a much greater effort to remove or pull out the plug compared to installation.

If is mandatory to use a pick for removal, how on earth would you be able to remove the AFS switch plug, CSV plug, or FV plug with the engine in situ? I will give you several hours to remove this spring with engine in situ. The key to removing this type of plug is to exert a side to side pull (wiggling) to get the locking spring slide over the the locking tabs. Go over the garage and practice removing it. I’ve been working with Bosch WUR’s for many years now and I could not recall exactly how many times I’ve done this maybe several hundreds or thousand times (?).

People been doing a lot of reading and that is good. But they lack hands on experience. This a very good example how people think and understand how CIS works. And this is just the “spring”. Wait till it comes to actually doing the CSV and fuel injectors tests and evaluation.

Tony

poor silly pnut! your team is turning on you!!

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by HarryD

WyattEarp:

All very interesting discussion, but back to you. Your original post said it was hard to start but once running, seemed ok. That, to me, clearly indicates a problem with the cold start system (Thermotime switch or CSV).

Have you been able to verify all is connected properly?

Have you been able to verify all is working?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Wyatt,

Ignore the other distractions. Simply focus your effort on what Harry is asking you. If you have any problem, simply ask. Keep us posted.

Tony

[pmax]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

The key to removing this type of plug is to exert a side to side pull (wiggling) to get the locking spring slide over the the locking tabs.

Awesome.

Will practise that wiggling technique on my spare harness connector.

Back to the OP's issue ...