Horse Power Confusion on 1983 SC Japan model

[Adrock]

I've just done some searching on the net to find out more about my engine number.
Engine number: 63D8174

I found the following page, which has a very comprehensive list of engine number descriptions: https://issuu.com/dr.culata/docs/porsche_engine_codes/15%2063D8174

It says my car is a Japanese 1983 911 SC
It says that my engine is 132 Kw, 179hp and 3.0L engine.

I was of the understanding that 1983 engines were supposed to be around 204hp?

When I look at the other 1983 911SC engines that aren't Japanese models - they ARE the 204hp or 150kw - also 3.0 engine.

What exactly would it be about the engines that is different that would be 25 less horse power? Especially since they are both built on a 3.0L motor.

Does anybody know if this is something to do with restrictions Japan might have had on emissions output? Hence, something in the motor is causing that 25hp restriction?

Ultimately, I guess my question is, is there something that can easily be removed/installed/changed in the engine setup that will bring those ponies back to life?

Thanks team!

[macssc911]

I think the Jap car is probably the same as a US spec SC, the ROW cars which have the larger intake valves are 204,

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Adrock

I've just done some searching on the net to find out more about my engine number.
Engine number: 63D8174

I found the following page, which has a very comprehensive list of engine number descriptions: https://issuu.com/dr.culata/docs/porsche_engine_codes/15%2063D8174

It says my car is a Japanese 1983 911 SC
It says that my engine is 132 Kw, 179hp and 3.0L engine.

I was of the understanding that 1983 engines were supposed to be around 204hp?

When I look at the other 1983 911SC engines that aren't Japanese models - they ARE the 204hp or 150kw - also 3.0 engine.

What exactly would it be about the engines that is different that would be 25 less horse power? Especially since they are both built on a 3.0L motor.

Does anybody know if this is something to do with restrictions Japan might have had on emissions output? Hence, something in the motor is causing that 25hp restriction?

Ultimately, I guess my question is, is there something that can easily be removed/installed/changed in the engine setup that will bring those ponies back to life?

Thanks team!

for 1983 Sc there were 3 different normally aspirated engines
Most RoW got 930.10 150kw/204hp
US & Canada got 930.16 132kw/180hp
Japan got 930.17 132kw/180hp

the reason for the different engines was the legislative decisions made in the import countries

[Bob Kontak]

The 83 Japanese engine is more of an American/Canadian version than the ROW cars. Hence, the lower hp.

I don't know all the details and I may be talking out of school but I believe the ROW cars have a little more compression. Later US SC's have 9.3:1 compression and I believe the later ROW cars have 9.7. They breathe better and more fuel is distributed. There is more total ignition advance. (I qualify all of this as suspect as I don't know for certain). Pretty sure your car will have the Lambda system (O2 sensor system)

There are threads in here where guys know the exact differences. Most comparisons will be ROW vs US but that will get you a pretty good picture.

In the way bottom of the PET parts diagram there are tables of what is what as to engines on a macro scale. Here is a screen shot of the 83 engines.

[Adrock]

Just checking this page, when I look at my VIN it comes up as the cabriolet (which it is)
http://www.adelgigs.com/911scproductiondata.shtml%20wpozzz91zds159588

VIN number: wpozzz91zds159588

The car was imported from Japan - I know that for sure...
The engine details confirm that it's a Japanese engine.
However, the VIN number doesn't match up with the bracket against the Japan model on the above link. It matches with the cabriolet row. I wonder which one is correct.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Adrock

VIN number: wpozzz91zds159588

The 59588 appears to fall in the range in the pic I posted for the cab.

The file is 12.2MB. I will try to e-mail it to you if you PM me your address. Nice file to have in your hip pocket.

Here is the link I obtained it from. The 78-83 is near the bottom.

http://www.jasmine-porschalink.co.uk/porsche-pet-diagrams-88-c.asp

[mhackney]

Adrock, thanks for adding your VIN to the 911SC Cabriolet Registry In the last month, I've uncovered that there were a small number of 83 Cabs imported to Japan. All of these cars were LHD and apparently there were 90 of them in the VIN range of: WP0ZZZ91ZDS159501-159590. Having learned this, I went through my data and did some deeper searches and I now have 5 Japanese 83 Cabriolets listed in the registry. I have engine #s for 3 of them and a tranny # for 1. All 5 are in the narrow range of -78 to -89: the high end of the VINs imported. I find that odd.

The RoW VINS are in the range of WP0ZZZ91ZDS150001-2406 so there 2406 of them. Note the Japanese VINS have a "95" in the 1000th and 100th places like this WP0ZZZ91ZDS1595__

These cars don't show up on the SC registry and they are also missing from the Red Book. I've only found 1 reference (the 78-73 PET that Bob linked to) that there were 90 Japanese cars and that is what set me off to discover them. I have had the PET for 10 years and really never paid attention to this section until a few weeks ago and then "bingo"!

To recap VINS:

US VINS in the range of WP0EAO91DS170001-1718
RoW VINS in the range of WP0ZZZ91ZDS150001-2406
Japanese VINS in the range of WP0ZZZ91ZDS159501-90

[Superman]

My '83 US-spec engine made 186 lb/ft of torque (and also 186 hp, coincidentally) AT THE REAR WHEELS. That pencils out to about 205 at the crank. Mine has 20/21 cams, which should not have much effect on peak HP and also SSI heat exchangers, which should have a moderate effect on peak HP.

I personally prefer the late-SC engines, not just because of the 9.3:1 compression ratio but also because of the narrower intake runners, which increase the velocity of air entering the engine.

[djpateman]

Originally Posted by mhackney

In the last month, I've uncovered that there were a small number of 83 Cabs imported to Japan. All of these cars were LHD and apparently there were 90 of them in the VIN range of: WP0ZZZ91ZDS159501-159590. Having learned this, I went through my data and did some deeper searches and I now have 5 Japanese 83 Cabriolets listed in the registry. I have engine #s for 3 of them and a tranny # for 1. All 5 are in the narrow range of -78 to -89: the high end of the VINs imported. I find that odd.

From about 1970 the first 10 in the VIN range were reserved for factory use. Many were used to renumber old race cars that got updated and some would have been used for prototypes or crash testing. More recently it seems that the first 60 VIN were reserved. However I do not know when this started, nor do I know if it applied to all VIN series. It would not surprise me if the reason your VIN's are skewed to the high end due to none being produced with lower VIN.

[mhackney]

Thanks @djpateman. I've read that also. One thing that was interesting to do was use CarFax to "find" VINs in US/CAN models. This led to discovering the WP0EA910DS170061 is likely the first cab in the US/CAN - actually it appears the the first 8 cars 61-70 (and maybe more) were imported t Canada. The first US VIN I have is #77 and it is now in Belgium.

I also have the last US Cab #1781 but it has not been heard from since 2000. It was originally owned by ZZ Top's drummer Frank Beard.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by mhackney

It was originally owned by ZZ Top's drummer Frank Beard.

The only one without a beard.

[mhackney]

A little ironic!

[jrbennett]

Originally Posted by djpateman

...More recently it seems that the first 60 VIN were reserved. However I do not know when this started, nor do I know if it applied to all VIN series...

Out of curiosity, I did some digging through my data.
It would appear that the Japanese cabrio VINs for '83 actually ranged from 59561-59590

I found the option codes for all 30 of them however no engine/trans numbers or interior/exterior colours were available

[Adrock]

Originally Posted by jrbennett

Out of curiosity, I did some digging through my data.
It would appear that the Japanese cabrio VINs for '83 actually ranged from 59561-59590

I found the option codes for all 30 of them however no engine/trans numbers or interior/exterior colours were available

Thanks for all of the replies everybody...
I didn't actually know what ROW meant until today - so hadn't previously searched for threads comparing USA to ROW. I found quite a few threads discussing the differences between the 180hp and 204hp versions... There are quite a few theories about the difference, but couldnt find anything concrete. I did find that probably the best way to get back that lost 20hp is probably SSI's and upgrade exhaust.

JRBENNETT: are you able to post those option codes here?
I think my car is missing any option code decals... they are usually under the front bonnet aren't they?

[hotaru]

Adrock
Japanese cars never had option sticker put on the car. I also have original Japanese import 83 cabrio. Engine code on my is 930/17
Mission code 915/63

[Adrock]

Originally Posted by hotaru

Adrock
Japanese cars never had option sticker put on the car. I also have original Japanese import 83 cabrio. Engine code on my is 930/17
Mission code 915/63

Oh wow, good to know - saves me looking for them, thanks.
I only grabbed the engine case part number which is 930.101.104.5R

I'll try and grab the engine & transmission code this weekend to see if it's the same as yours.

I wonder if the options are included on the Porsche birth certificates.

[mhackney]

@jrbennett I'm curious what data you have to know that range of Japanese VINS.

[jrbennett]

Originally Posted by Adrock

JRBENNETT: are you able to post those option codes here?
I think my car is missing any option code decals... they are usually under the front bonnet aren't they?

I don’t believe decals started until ‘84, and as hotaru said I also believe Japan cars never had a sticker.

Here’s the info I found on your VIN, it is most likely the same info you would get on a “birth certificate”

Model type: 911630
Engine type/number: 930/17 63D8174
Trans type/number: 915/63 74D5248
Tyres: Goodyear
Country: C08 (Japan LHD)
Colour codes: P5 V9 YE (sales codes for body/top/interior)
-P5 Grand Prix White
-V9 Black
-YE Interior Trim: material/colour = leatherette/black, Seats: rear of backrest/surround = leather, inlay = leather, side panels = leather, Carpet: black
Options:
(the following are part of C08)
-026
-186
-187
-193
-467
-476
-576
-592
(these others are part of a trim package, I dont have the number but most likely D??)
-197
-395
-559
-566
-568
(no other options listed)

[mhackney]

jrbennet, I know that the 83 US cabriolets had option decals under the front hood. I have personally inspected 5 original or 2nd owner cars. My car also had the decal (I'm the 3rd owner).

There are a couple of odd things that I'm trying to get a handle on:

The US 83 cabs switched from SC engine cases to Carrera engine cases mid run. This happened somewhere between VIN WP0EA091XDS170603 (SC case) and WP0EA0911DS170618 (Carrera case) in March of 1983. I've been able to get this list down to a range of 15 cars!

For RoW cars I only have data that up to VIN WP0ZZZ917DS150903 (3/83) were SC cases. I don't know if a changeover occurred. And I know nothing about what case was shipped with the Japanese cars. Adrock, maybe you could fill in this for your car - the Carrera case has a ~6" (150mm) round plate on the bottom of the engine with the oil drain plug.

[jrbennett]

Originally Posted by mhackney

- the Carrera case has a ~6" (150mm) round plate on the bottom of the engine with the oil drain plug.

I hope you mean SC had the large plate...

Here's the engine numbers of the last "SC" cases

63D4069 - M930/10 - VIN WP0ZZZ91ZDS140879
64D3716 - M930/16 - VIN WP0EA0910DS170609 (..10, ..11 & ..12 also have SC cases, 712, 711 & 684)
63D8154 - M930/17 - VIN WP0ZZZ91ZDS159572
67D0711 - M930/66

and the first "Carrera" cases

63D4070 - M930/10 - VIN WP0ZZZ91ZDS140871
64D3717 - M930/16 - VIN WP0EA0914DS170614 (...13 has Carrera case, 23)
63D8155 - M930/17 - VIN WP0ZZZ91ZDS159575 (...73 & ...74 also have Carrera cases, 57 & 56)
67D0712 - M930/66 - VIN WP0ZZZ93ZDS000691

@mhackney, when I get a chance I'll look into the VINs between the 15 you have and send you an e-mail.
The lowest USA/CAN cabrio VIN I show with a Carrera case is WP0EA0912DS170613 (64D3723)

Jon