Finding parts for ROW vs US spec

[Mike964_61]

Tons of places sell things for aircooled P cars. Just like anything type what you need into your internet search bar and boom. Buy the ROW, its cooler than a US spec car.

[ksluna]

This is the car I am looking at:

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-marketplace/1107128-1985-carrera-prussian-blue-row.html

Comfortable with posting here if anyone else here is interested in the ROW since I'm still on the fence about it, but this thread is making me close to pulling the trigger.

[darrin]

ksluna -- nice looking (and spec'ed) car -- do you need to pass emissions in your state? Doesn't look like the car's currently set up to pass emissions and if running a 2 in 2 out muffler, would also have had its factory exhaust headers replaced -- you'd need to revert the exhaust headers and muffler to stock to be cat/emissions compatible. This is probably why it's registered in Wisconisin even though it's in CO (which requires emissions compliance on the front range)

Also, since you look to be new to air-cooled 911s, keep in mind that the 3.2 liter engine has a high instance of premature valve guide wear, resulting in very high oil consumption and a need for a top end rebuild to fix. Doesn't look like this has been done on this car yet and its mileage is approaching when my '86 required a top-end rebuild.

[ksluna]

I'm in TXC, so no need to pass emissions in my state as far as I know.

I am completely new to the air-cooled 911s. I've done quite ab it of research on them and settled between a 3.2 or an SC. is an SC known to have the valve guide wear?

[darrin]

Originally Posted by ksluna

is an SC known to have the valve guide wear?

Not like the 3.2, but SCs have their own issues (head studs, airbox issues, etc.) Working theory on the valve guides is that an "improvement" to the valve guide seal on the 3.2 caused oil starvation to the guide and resulted in premature wear -- My car is/was a daily driver (with frequent AC use) which may well have exacerbated the issue.

I wouldn't let something like this scare you off and even if the car turns out to already have relatively high oil consumption (I bit the bullet at 500 miles per quart and 90k miles post rebuild still get 2k miles per quart) you'd probably be fine driving it for quite a few miles. So shopping for a car that's already been through a top end rebuild would make more sense if you plan to put on a lot of miles (daily driver/etc). FOR SURE get a pre purchase inspection done by a shop that's familiar with/specializes in air-cooled porsches -- fortunately there are quite a few in CO and there are a few methods used to check for/confirm valve guide wear.

[ksluna]

Thanks for the information, darrin!

A lot of what I see on rennlist is to buy the lowest mileage, best condition 3.2 I can find. Most 3.2s I see for sale haven't advertised that they had a rebuild yet, perhaps it is because of the mileage.

I will keep that in mind. So far what I've been looking for classifieds on rennlist, PCA (though I am not a member, yet), and autotrader.

[proporsche]

I have mine 85 ROW, even in California admitted.Took all the crap off ,still passed the smog in LA..never ever had a problem with parts...if you can get ROW go for it it is most likely cheaper the US specs 911 and more horsies....had id for 23 years....If the 911 is in the US of A it has all the paperwork anyway...
ivan

do not worry about the milage i got mine with 320 000 miles and now 491 000 plus......

[darrin]

although low mileage is generally good advice -- I found that on my car I chased a number of issues that had developed due to lack of use by the previous owner (e.g. squeaky bushings, cracking fuel lines, dragging brakes, etc.). -- 180k on a 30+ year old car translates to under 6k miles per year -- not exactly a hard life. If my car were to be totaled, I'd look for a car that'd been driven/loved/maintained over one that had sat for years and accumulated rodent nests . . . the ROW 85 that you're looking at seems to show the love (at least from the ad)?

[proporsche]

yup ..here it is...........;-)i still don`t believe i parked it for 20 years on the streets of LA...so, get it and of course show it to us..and mainly as said get it checked by pro...the more things he will find the more the price could go down..nothing major thou..


Now in Europe...

[ksluna]

proporsche, beautiful 911...

I might pull the trigger on the ROW then. I'll definitely need the AC back in since I'm in the DFW metroplex. I have a daily driver but still, AC is required here or else I'd melt.

The only thing holding me back is the color! Looking at historic rennlist/pelican part threads right now about Prussian Blue lol.

[proporsche]

Thanx...i do not know the add ,is it prussian blue like this?



Is it an original color to the car?Is it a coupe or cab or targa?
this blue is actually very nice...i`m just looking through the rennlist and i do not see it?Never mind got it...

[ksluna]

Yeah that is the color. I linked the ad in my earlier comment on this page.

I was really set on a black or silver one, with guards red being my fallback. But this looks like it's a pretty decent deal.

[proporsche]

well..overall it has some extras like another set of wheels.If you are concern about the A/c-as you should in Texas either get the original from the owner or from one of the pelican Johnny`s retrofit.He makes complete el.a/c system..He is from England thou...

the car look very nice,but have it checked for sure...leakdown test included.

Ivan

[proporsche]

the only thing is as you said the millage 61 000 ...why dig into that...i just checked ,your if, future 911 is out of the line in Stuttgart 2 318 911`s later;-)

Ivan

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by ksluna

This is the car I am looking at:

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-marketplace/1107128-1985-carrera-prussian-blue-row.html

Comfortable with posting here if anyone else here is interested in the ROW since I'm still on the fence about it, but this thread is making me close to pulling the trigger.

I know this car. I've seen it in person. I think it's underpriced by $5k or so.

On the valve guides, I think there's a lot of bad "sky is falling" information that surrounds the 3.2s. They had an issue with premature valve guide. It didn't effect them all, but it effected a percentage of them. If it had the issue, it would have shown itself by 61k mi. I would look at a car like this and no be concerned about it. If it's made it this far it's likely to go 150k before it's a problem. I just sold my personal 3.2 with 113k mi with no rebuild history. Thing is tight as a drum and runs like a top.

[proporsche]

Hi Matt,you are absolutely correct..if the 61k is true it is cool car..most of the Carrera problems were starting in 1987 with different structure-metallurgist compounds of the valve guides..i did a must valve job on 1987 with 23 000 miles completely worn out..and some with even bend valves on those years.
I got the info from a friend who worked on the line in Stuttgart about the different materials they have used ....i`m not going to say here, why....

Ivan

[darrin]

Matt Monson knows his stuff -- I made the point as something to be aware of (and exercise due diligence on), not as a dealbreaker.

On the AC front, more conventional (and tried and true) 911-specific options are available from Griffiths - see, e.g. https://griffiths.com/product/930-1984-to-1989-reliability-package-upgrade-2/ which would give you upgraded/updated versions of much of what's needed to add a (relatively) effective and reliable ac system back into the 85 Carrera.

Sounds like you've found a good candidate!

[porschenut]

The premature valve guide issue affected only a small percentage of 3.2 Carreras, and almost always before 50k miles. Most 3.2s easily go to 120k or even much more before needing a top end job. The issue's been exaggerated for many years in online forums. A PPI with compression and leakdown tests is a must for any engine though, which should reveal the presence of excessive guide wear.

One thing is wrong with that '85 ROW car - the front bumper lighting is for a US car, because it has 4 light boxes instead of 2. The lights that are just in front of the accordions shouldn't be there. There should be rubber strips instead. I wonder what that's about.

[HaroldMHedge]

The US side marker lights in front of the bellows were most likely added when the car was Federalized.

[786]

Originally Posted by Dmitry at Pelican Parts

I know exactly what you mean! I spoke with our Catalog Manager aka Porsche Guru and he said that as an investment, ROWs are not nearly what people think they may be and as mentioned parts can be a massive headache - maybe pass on this one?

Lol, have your “Porsche guru” read the comments below as they are spot on.

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

Massive Headache???? Same car more HP very few differences in parts buy it!!!

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Um yeah... he's wrong.

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

I've owned my RoW for over 40yrs, never an issue getting parts

Originally Posted by ksluna

Also, for the US spec and ROW owners, where do you guys buy older parts? Are there just a lot of vendors on this forum that sell parts for these older aircooled porsches?

Dude you can get anything on the internet, differences are not anything to worry about, on the contrary they make the car a blast to drive. I told my “Porsche guru” (local shop owner with 40 yrs air cooled Porsche experience) and he lol’d at what was said in here regarding ROW cars. FYI, I have an 85 ROW and it’s been bulletproof reliable and all the guys that have tried it say it’s noticeably stronger than a US 3.2. I’m in Texas as well so no emissions to worry about. It’s a fantastic car and I’m very glad I stumbled upon it. When I was looking for 3.2s I found this ROW car and read up a bit on it, found nothing to worry about and pulled the trigger. You’ll be glad you did, that Prussian car looks gorgeous too. Get a PPI and don’t look back. If you’re in Dallas I can direct you to a great shop to take care of it once it arrives as well. I bought mine sight unseen from out of state (but got a PPI of course). Good luck.