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-   -   Gas leak at first spring start (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1024435-gas-leak-first-spring-start.html)

OsoMoore 03-29-2019 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ (Post 10409021)
I did Len's lines with the steering assy in. It was a pain and there was much cursing and gnashing of teeth, but I believe it was faster than removing the steering and maybe helped avoid a separate can of worms while removing/reinstalling the steering assy.

Be sure to get the grommets for the tunnel lines and his threaded coupler to help pull the tunnel lines through while removing the originals.

Thanks for the info! Grommets and coupler were listed in his parts list, so I should be good on those.

OsoMoore 03-29-2019 04:29 PM

The fuel is 99% drained, just getting dribbles at the rear of the car, when I run the pump. Tomorrow I'll disconnect the line at the front and get the last bits out.

I had a vacuum-style line come apart when I was wrangling the fuel line down from the accumulator. I'm not sure if the the failed line is a brake booster, a charcoal canister feed, or something else. Hopefully I can trace it tomorrow. Any ideas?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1553905730.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1553905730.jpg

OsoMoore 03-30-2019 11:10 AM

Today I disconnected the various fuel lines further. I needed some pb blaster oil to get most of the line connections off.
First I removed the transmission mount plate, putting a jack under the transmission instead.
Then I twisted the fuel lines at the rear of the tunnel downward so I could access their nuts with a wrench. Without bending the lines into a 'U', you can't really get a wrench on them. Once I did that and soaked their nuts, they came off without too much trouble.
I did the same for the lines at the front on the pump and tank. I also pulled the feed line in back up and totally out of the car. The return line snakes behind the engine, so I'm not sure what I will do with it. It has another connection mid-way, so maybe I just disconnect it there.

Questions:
1) I'm still not sure on that extra vacuum-looking line. I need to fish around figure out where the top end goes to. It comes out of the tunnel right next to the fuel lines.
2) I can't get the front ends of the lines over the steering mechanism. Should I just cut the hoses off at the front of the tunnel? I'll be pulling Len's lines in from the back, so I don't think that will be a problem. Of course, I have to fit his lines back over the steering mechanism.

OsoMoore 04-01-2019 05:56 AM

I'm still unsure on those two questions I posted Saturday.

Meanwhile, the new fuel lines ship this week, hopefully I get her back running by the weekend. I plan to take detailed measurements and photos of the old lines once they are out.

Solamar 04-01-2019 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OsoMoore (Post 10410290)
Questions:
1) I'm still not sure on that extra vacuum-looking line. I need to fish around figure out where the top end goes to. It comes out of the tunnel right next to the fuel lines.

That line goes from the fuel tank to the charcoal canister in the engine bay. Our host does not carry it in lengths that will work for this use (~$90 for 1 meter).

I just broke, and replaced mine. The "correct" hose is 4mm ID but I was unable to find a source for that, 3.5mm worked, just a bit tight. Theres a seller on Ebay that has 3.5mm German Continental fabric covered hose. Worked great. I bought 10 ft and had a couple feet left over.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Continental-German-3-5-mm-ID-Braided-Cloth-Vacuum-Hose-Sold-by-Ft-Audi-VW-BMW/132977088184?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid =p2057872.m2749.l2649

OsoMoore 04-01-2019 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solamar (Post 10412197)
That line goes from the fuel tank to the charcoal canister in the engine bay. Our host does not carry it in lengths that will work for this use (~$90 for 1 meter).

I just broke, and replaced mine. The "correct" hose is 4mm ID but I was unable to find a source for that, 3.5mm worked, just a bit tight. Theres a seller on Ebay that has 3.5mm German Continental fabric covered hose. Worked great. I bought 10 ft and had a couple feet left over.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Continental-German-3-5-mm-ID-Braided-Cloth-Vacuum-Hose-Sold-by-Ft-Audi-VW-BMW/132977088184?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid =p2057872.m2749.l2649

Sounds important to avoid gas fumes in the engine bay (and the environment).

OsoMoore 04-04-2019 06:49 AM

I'll be starting this hopefully this weekend.
Some tips for myself from the linked threads (page 1):
- Tape the hanging tail of Len's lines so they don't flail around and get mucked up as I pull them through.
- If you twist as you go (to work them past blockages) twist in the direction to keep the linking "nut" tight.
- If you can't get the old lines out over the steering assembly, pull harder. Maybe use pliers grips for leverage.
- Direct info link from Leakyseals: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/792001-okay-so-i-am-going-replace-my-main-tunnel-fuel-lines-tomorrow-any-suggestions-2.html#post7860449
- With Len's double-nut-thing, don't worry about taping. Do worry about over-pulling: don't do it!
- Don't need to remove shifter/e-brake. Do remove console (already deleted in my car).
- Check for getting past the safety stop used where old console screw goes into the tunnel.
- Not sure how the grommets go in. Folks say to pop the old ones into the tunnel from outside. But if you pull the new lines through, how do you ditch the old grommets? And if they pop "in", how do you put new ones on after the new line is installed. I thought they only went in from 1 side.

More notes/updates coming as I have time.

GH85Carrera 04-04-2019 07:41 AM

Get a helper! I fought for over an hour and made tons of trips from the front to the back of the car. Finally I called a buddy. Just wiggle the line back and forth and rotate and it goes through quick and easy with two people.
Getting the new grommets into place is a chore, or it was for me.

OsoMoore 04-04-2019 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera (Post 10416180)
Get a helper! I fought for over an hour and made tons of trips from the front to the back of the car. Finally I called a buddy. Just wiggle the line back and forth and rotate and it goes through quick and easy with two people.
Getting the new grommets into place is a chore, or it was for me.

Thanks for the tip! I'll have my wife able to help out once I have things in place, although my 3-year-old is probably not going to assist.

How did you handle removing old grommets and inserting new? I've seen posts about popping the old ones inside the tunnel and getting them out later, but wouldn't they just be wrapped around the new lines?

GH85Carrera 04-04-2019 08:20 AM

I just poked the old grommets into the tunnel and went fishing with some long needle nose pliers. Bed back the metal tabs that hold the lines to open them up.

jlex 04-04-2019 12:09 PM

Once you get those new lines installed, jumper the FP relay to circulate gas thru the filter before starting the car. Will keep debris from entering your injectors....

sigchuck 04-04-2019 02:35 PM

Guys, I am in the same boat with my gas lines. I have Len's new lines in hand and have the tank out for a repair, but I don't see a realistic way to get to the lines.

Aside from the steering rack, there's a vacuum pod with some wires on it (looks to be easily removed) as well as an A/C line between the ground and the location where the lines exit the tunnel in front. Has anyone done this with the rack in place that also has A/C?

I understand I may need to remove the transmission crossmember. Does this also require removal of the rear sway bar?

Thanks, as always!

OsoMoore 04-05-2019 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigchuck (Post 10416690)
Guys, I am in the same boat with my gas lines. I have Len's new lines in hand and have the tank out for a repair, but I don't see a realistic way to get to the lines.

Aside from the steering rack, there's a vacuum pod with some wires on it (looks to be easily removed) as well as an A/C line between the ground and the location where the lines exit the tunnel in front.

I have no AC, and I'm not sure about this vacuum pod you speak of. I was able to get the rear lines detached by pulling some extra hose out and bending it down. See LeakySeals951's thread here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/792001-okay-so-i-am-going-replace-my-main-tunnel-fuel-lines-tomorrow-any-suggestions-2.html#post7860424

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigchuck (Post 10416690)
Has anyone done this with the rack in place that also has A/C?

LeakySeal did it with his rack in place. I don't recall if he had A/C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigchuck (Post 10416690)
I understand I may need to remove the transmission crossmember. Does this also require removal of the rear sway bar?

Thanks, as always!

Transmission crossmember does need to come off. But that's pretty easy. Put your floor jack under the engine and lift a little to take weight off the rear mount. Then lower it slightly onto a jack stand, under the transmission. Then you can remove the bolts holding the crossmember to both the transmission and the car. I didn't remove the sway bar.

For removing the old lines in front, I think I'm going to have to cut them, as I can't seem to get them back over steering linkage. Hopefully I can route the new ones over, but I might just route them below. I might have a bump steer kit, which gives you less space above and more below. I'll be checking next time I'm underneath (tonight or tomorrow).

I highly recommend you read the entire LeakySeals thread.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/792001-okay-so-i-am-going-replace-my-main-tunnel-fuel-lines-tomorrow-any-suggestions.html

OsoMoore 04-05-2019 03:32 PM

I had some good progress, but now I'm stuck and could use some help.
I have run the feed line all the way through. On my car, it is the one nearest the middle of the tunnel, and thus the one you can more easily feel at the front and rear access ports.

The hang-up point is out of reach from the rear port, and far away from the front port. This line is also the one furthest from the center of the car, so to tough it I have to reach around the more central line.

The problem line is the return line. I am able to get it 10 inches into the tunnel, but then it smacks had against an obstruction. The connector from the old line to the new has a notable "shoulder" and it can't seem to get over. I've tried rotating it to all positions and it still hangs up there. I also tried taping the hump to help it get through, but the gas in the tunnel (it leaked a little) disintegrates the duct tape, and I'm not sure it would help even if it held up.

Any ideas are appreciated. For now, I'm taking a break.

OsoMoore 04-05-2019 05:06 PM

At Len's suggestion, I cleaned out the tunnel (as much as I can reach) and will be re-trying using electrical tape instead of duct tape. I'll also poke my phone camera in there to see if I can spot the hangup spot.

I'm planning to give that a go tomorrow morning!

OsoMoore 04-06-2019 05:17 AM

I was able to get the second fuel line installed this morning. I backed the connection out and re-wrapped it in electrical tape . When I tried to pull it through it at first got stuck in the same spot. But I braced myself at the front of the car and yanked and yanked and eventually it popped through!
Next I tried to get the grommets in, but they are a real tight fit. I will try again later today or tomorrow, with some sort of lubrication.

OsoMoore 04-07-2019 01:52 PM

New lines are all hooked up (3 new in each direction). She runs fine, zero leaks. I even got that darn double hose clamp under the transmission back on. I ran let it run into a bottle for 1/2 cup or so before hooking through the accumulator/filter, to ensure any junk couldn't reach important things.

I ended up running the short front lines over the steering mechanism, but not through their little guide/hole thing. I didn't have very much room to maneuver them due to my bump steer kit. I imagine without the kit I could have gotten them through the special guide, but the bump steer kit takes away about 3/4 of an inch of clearance.

Inserting the new grommets around the tunnel hole openings was interesting. At first I tried all four, and couldn't make any progress. The next day, I started at the front and coated them in petroleum jelly inside and out. The front ones were still quite hard to insert, and I ended up using a nail punch to push the first edge in. A small screwdriver would have worked as well. Once I had the edges in, I was able to slide them the rest of the way. I was worried about the back ones, because they have much less working space around them. But with the jelly they slid in without using any tools. Maybe the rear holes are bigger.

A few tasks remain:
- Put the transmission mount back on.
- Put new 2 fuel pump mounts on (it is currently supported by its fuel lines).
- Put in a new fuel vent tube.

The tube for the fuel vent and 1 pump mount (oops...) are arriving this week from our host, so I'll probably do all those at once. I'll also post some pretty pictures for you all, and any last thoughts regarding the project.

Solamar 04-07-2019 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OsoMoore (Post 10419508)

The tube for the fuel vent and 1 pump mount (oops...) are arriving this week from our host, so I'll probably do all those at once. I'll also post some pretty pictures for you all, and any last thoughts regarding the project.

Which vent line did you order? Pelican told me the only hose they stock that's the correct size is precut at 1 meter. 1.5 meter is needed for this line.

OsoMoore 04-07-2019 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solamar (Post 10419525)
Which vent line did you order? Pelican told me the only hose they stock that's the correct size is precut at 1 meter. 1.5 meter is needed for this line.

I ordered 4 meters, and as an order note said I needed it as a single piece. If it isn't a single piece, I'll ask for my money back, as they didn't say anything in reply to the order.

OsoMoore 04-10-2019 06:33 AM

Everything is back together and running great. I took my 3-year-old out for ice cream last night and she had a blast. She likes how the car makes "bear noises" and constantly urges me to go faster.

Thanks to everyone for the input and encouragement.


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